Interesting stats on cycle red light jumpers

[Rockets]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/cyclists-fines-jumping-red-lights-city-of-london-b1236074.html

I am not sure this can come as a surprise to anyone who witnesses cycle behaviour in London. Of course some claim there isn't a problem but these stats from the police and Lime would suggest otherwise.

52% of respondents admitted to jumping red lights with 16% say they do it regularly. Interesting that Lime feel compelled to launch a campaign called "Respect the Red". Clearly a big issue.

Edited Thursday at 18:58 by Rockets

[Moovart]

I've seen a few incidents recently where the bikes jumping the red lights have almost hit the bikes going through the green lights.  A hazard to eachother 🤷

[the_hermit]

On the whole I despise cyclists who jump reds as much as anyone (I had one crash into the back of me at the junction of Lyndhurst Way and Peckham Road).  There are two scenarios where I do jump reds: 1 when it's safer e.g. junction of Eastcheap and London Bridge - first set of traffic lights the COVID narrowing of the pavement makes it safer to get out in front of the traffic rather than risk being knocked off by drivers passing too close.  2 when I could get off and walk (e.g. CPR and EDR by Goose Green) I just float across v slowly at walking pace no faster than the pedestrians.

[SE22_2020er]

I had a fellow cyclist go into the back of me this week when I stopped  at a red light as I was cycling along the Walworth Road. Poor lady got a bit of a shock and a scraped shin for her troubles.

on the same trip along the Walworth road I nearly hit a pedestrian who stepped out into the road completely oblivious as they were glued to their phone and not paying the slightest of attention to the traffic  

a car also pulled out of a side road without looking properly and I nearly got hit for my troubles. And don’t get me started on the number of drivers using their phones as they drive 😡.

Moral of the story - pedestrians, cyclists, drivers… …all as bad as each other!

 

 

[tedfudge]

A red light is a red light the law applies to everybody using the road .

If the light is red you stop even if there's nothing else on the road but I see so many cyclists going through the red lights it is unbelievable and I've not seen one car go through a red light while I've been on the road.

The worst place I've seen this is blackfriars bridge heading towards ludgate circus and even the big busy main junctions of ludgate circus and the main junction before blackfriars bridge on this side of the water , the pedestrians are running across so they don't get hit by a cyclist.. bottom line stop at the red.

[Dulwichway]

15 hours ago, Rockets said:

 

52% of respondents admitted to jumping red lights with 16% say they do it regularly. 

In reality, it'll be a hell of a lot more than 52% of these two-wheeled numpties that jump the reds!

[Spartacus]

12 hours ago, SE22_2020er said:

And don’t get me started on the number of drivers using their phones as they drive 😡.

Moral of the story - pedestrians, cyclists, drivers… …all as bad as each other!

 

 

Sadly, that also is true of cyclists and pedestrians. It seems everyone is glued to their phone whilst moving. 

Maybe we should ban phones (radical idea) and go back to how we all communicated before them. Face to face and talking to each other. 

[Sue]

7 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Sadly, that also is true of cyclists and pedestrians. It seems everyone is glued to their phone whilst moving. 

Maybe we should ban phones (radical idea) and go back to how we all communicated before them. Face to face and talking to each other. 

Trouble is, phones are now much  more than a means of  communication, aren't they?

You can do so much on them, and if you are short of time, I can see that  it might make sense to do it while you are moving, quite apart from satnav reasons.

That doesn't condone unsafe use by any road users,  obviously.

[Spartacus]

I think, Sue, that is the definition of addiction. Exactly what phone companies want, us to be addicted to tech so that they can sell us even more expensive shiny new gadgets.

However this is a thread focusing on red light jumping and I guess the real question is how do we stop it for all road users ? 

Edited yesterday at 11:22 by Spartacus

[tedfudge]

13 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

I think, Sue, that is the definition of addiction. Exactly what phone companies want, us to be addicted to tech so that they can sell us even more expensive shiny new gadgets.

However this is a thread focusing on red light jumping and I guess the real question is how do we stop it for all road users ? 

Unfortunately it wont stop unless everytime light goes red a barrier comes up but then cyclists will ride on pavement to get round it . 

See a lot of cyclists ride on pavement aswell

[HeadNun]

22 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

I think, Sue, that is the definition of addiction. Exactly what phone companies want, us to be addicted to tech so that they can sell us even more expensive shiny new gadgets.

However this is a thread focusing on red light jumping and I guess the real question is how do we stop it for all road users ? 

The only way would be cameras and facial recognition. 

I saw two cyclists collide on Lordship Lane last night and an altercation followed. Much like others' experience on here, one man had stopped at the red lights / pedestrian crossing, and a cyclist, who had no plan to stop, went into the back of him. Anyone elderly and / or infirm crossing at that moment could have been badly injured. 

[Hen123]

A better solution would what they have done Paris and a few places on the US.  
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33773868.amp

[BrandNewGuy]

3 hours ago, Hen123 said:

A better solution would what they have done Paris and a few places on the US.  
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33773868.amp

'Turn on red' is normal in the USA, unless there is a sign indicating "No Turn on Red." However drivers (and presumably cyclists)  must come to a complete stop and yield to any pedestrians and oncoming traffic before making the turn. Not so sure about allowing 'straight ahead on red'...

[Spartacus]

4 hours ago, Hen123 said:

A better solution would what they have done Paris and a few places on the US.  
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33773868.amp

Smacks of "its too hard to stop them so let them do it" 

Slightly defeatist and will encourage other road users to do the same 

[exdulwicher]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Smacks of "its too hard to stop them so let them do it" 

Not really - turn right on red has been A Thing for motorists in many US states for years now, it's basically accepting that there are situations where a filter would be appropriate but for whatever reason it's too expensive / time consuming to put them in as a formal set of lights.

A lot of US states have something similar for cyclists called the Idaho Stop - Idaho as the state that introduced it. Basically says that cyclists can treat a red light as a STOP sign and a STOP sign as a Give Way. So if you get to a red light, stop, can see that the way for a bike is clear and it's safe for everyone, you can make the turn.

It;s a tacit admission that bikes are not cars and sometimes measures designed for cars are not entirely necessary for bikes.

On the other hand, if you blow through a red light, mowing down pedestrians every which way, you can expect to be severely punished for it, there are traffic cops everywhere in the US. As a result, the road laws are generally complied with. Same in Australia where there are routine stop and search operations, regular speed checks and the fines (for drivers and cyclists) are eye-wateringly expensive and heavily enforced.

The issues the Government is having with taxes and the welfare bill could be solved in a couple of weeks by actually doing some proper traffic enforcement (and to be clear, I mean on both drivers and cyclists).

22 hours ago, Rockets said:

Interesting that Lime feel compelled to launch a campaign called "Respect the Red". Clearly a big issue.

An issue mostly created by the pricing structure that Lime use which charges by the minute. People don't want to pay 25p to sit there at a red light for 2 minutes. Santander mostly avoids this by charging in "blocks" of time which largely removes the time pressure element because it doesn't matter if you ride for 5 minutes or 20, you still pay the same amount.

[Penguin68]

30 minutes ago, exdulwicher said:

People don't want to pay 25p to sit there at a red light for 2 minutes

So I imagine you will be urging black cabs to be allowed to jump reds as well then? 

[exdulwicher]

1 minute ago, Penguin68 said:

So I imagine you will be urging black cabs to be allowed to jump reds as well then? 

It is very much in the interest of cab drivers to drive to the speed limit and stop at every red light, they earn more that way!

Cabbies are normally worse on mobile phone offences though.

[Penguin68]

Good point, but not Uber drivers. It's in their interest to take more fixed fee rides so jumping red lights benefits them. Makes no difference to their fares but of course it does to black cab fares, who want a short journey as they are additionally paying for time as well as distance. 

[exdulwicher]

21 minutes ago, Penguin68 said:

Good point, but not Uber drivers. It's in their interest to take more fixed fee rides so jumping red lights benefits them. 

Very true.

In some respects, "society" has created this issue with delivery drivers and riders (and Uber). Food delivery companies promise you'll get your takeaway within 30 minutes - that doesn't leave much time for the restaurant to receive your order, prepare and pack it and for the rider / driver to then get it to you. They're almost incentivised to break the law.

With delivery riders (all of them on zero hours / "pay per drop" conditions), literally the only way they can do this all day every day is to buy a bunch of cheap knock-off batteries and a motor from some dodgy online retailer, strap them to some old mountain bike and blat around on that. Minimal expenditure (cos they can't afford proper legal electric bicycles) and minimal regulation (cos they're all working under dodgy conditions anyway, half of them are probably on the verge of slave labour / exploitation / no legal right to work) so they can't get UK driving licences as required for mopeds / motorbikes.

Lime riders are mostly on pay-per-minute (Lime do offer the option to buy blocks of time as a "Day Pass", I don't have any figures on how many people use that option). Uber drivers are all rushing to the next fare, knowing that if they're late they'll get a bad review. 

The whole system has created a sub-group of road users who are incentivised to speed, use mobile phones (cos everything they're doing is app-based, all their orders are received that way) and jump red lights.

I don't really have any suggestions of how to put that genie back in the bottle, I'm not justifying their behaviour, just explaining some aspects of it. There was a long discussion on road.cc a couple of years ago about a proposed law change (which never made it beyond talking about it) and notes a few examples from around the world where cyclists can (in certain circumstances) treat red lights as a Stop or Give Way:

https://road.cc/content/news/should-cyclists-be-allowed-ride-through-red-lights-298809

[Hen123]

19 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Smacks of "its too hard to stop them so let them do it" 

Slightly defeatist and will encourage other road users to do the same 

No. In the trial period it showed fairly conclusively it was safer for cyclists and motorists didn’t have to wait as long. Win win. 

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, exdulwicher said:

I don't really have any suggestions of how to put that genie back in the bottle,

A radical thinking friend recently suggested, over a few pints, that all pedestrians are issued a shotgun, with 99 out of 100 having blanks and 1 in a 100 a live cartridge. 

He suggested that pedestrians could legally fire at any vehicle or cyclust jumping a red light with the offenders facing a 1 in 100 chance of not making it through unscathed . 

Not sure its ethical or legal but it feels like the same sort of odds pedestrians face of being hit by a cyclist when crossing. 

[SE22_2020er]

@Spartacus - now you’re just being silly!!! 🤣

[Spartacus]

Of course I am, but if reform get in ....