Crikey! This Doesn't Look Good For The Housing Secretary

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Oh dear, another Labour bashing thread.  Some unhappy bunnies out there with very short memories about the last government.

Sadly the Labour home goals and rather irrelevant Tory party play into the hands of Farage.

I think the problem is Labour  are reminding everyone of the awful Tory behaviour by behaving in exactly the same way - they promised they would be different but have been anything but and yes all this is doing is playing into the hands of Farage. Rayner has created a massive mess for Starmer and the party and I think his reshuffle is not necessarily for the benefit of the country but his political longevity - the real infighting within Labour is about to start now Rayner has gone.

For everyone's sake (whether you support them or not) Labour have got to get a grip - it's been one disaster after another and I cannot help but think that things are going to get really difficult for them around the budget as there is going to be a lot of very disgruntled "working people" out there.

Farage is just sitting there on the sidelines watching Labour fall apart and rubbing his hands with glee...very, very scary.

[malumbu]

22 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Guess the same could be said about short memories and the last few labour governments.

Ultimately the grass is always greener... 

Ok list Labour Vs Tory sleaze.  I expect Tories will win (ie more scandals).

14 minutes ago, Angelina said:

well they'd best pull their socks up as Reform are hot on their heels - and getting caught with their pants down is ridiculously stupid. The electorate do not take kindly to thieving and greedy politicians.

Not good as a politician but as a nation most of us are greedy, Thatcher exploited that, and anyone who avoids tax is a thief by your broad definition. I'll be the first to hand myself in having occasionally paid cash in hand for jobs   i expect as a teenager doing casual work in the summer mist of the adults were signing on

[Spartacus]

Sorry @malumbu do your own investigation into that 

I'm old enough to remember things like the mass unemployment in the late 70s (down to labour) along with inflation running high, 4 day weeks and so on. So its not just about sleaze but wrecking the economy. 

 

[teddyboy23]

Reeves should be next.telling porkies about her work record. And also Ed milliband for killing that poor bacon sarnie

 

 

[malumbu]

23 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Sorry @malumbu do your own investigation into that 

I'm old enough to remember things like the mass unemployment in the late 70s (down to labour) along with inflation running high, 4 day weeks and so on. So its not just about sleaze but wrecking the economy. 

 

So you are also old enough to remember the Heath Out protest by the TUC when unemployment hit 1 million?

We all have selective memories, this thread is no different.

Please give me a list of the Labour sleaze. And compare it to the Tories. 

There are a few of you who appear to have a long term dislike of Labour, so all this is a gift.

[Angelina]

Same can be said for the current and prior governments 

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Please give me a list of the Labour sleaze. And compare it to the Tories. 

There are a few of you who appear to have a long term dislike of Labour, so all this is a gift.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Labour ran on a manifesto of "we aren't like them" and "we are different" and"you can trust us/we will restore faith in politics". They are doing nothing to convince anyone that any of those promises are being met - they are letting everyone down. u-turning on everything and are fast-tracking the doomsday scenario of a Reform government. Even the runway on the "it's all the Tories fault" is running out.

I dislike politicians because they cannot be trusted and Rayner just highlighted that with ribbons on. She should have been so careful after the focus on the electoral roll issues she had with the house in Ashton-under-Lyne and then under a year later this comes up.

Clearly the advice she took included a recommendation to take proper advice that she failed to do - that's just daft and the most galling thing is that she didn't just resign when this came up - she tried to spin out of it but must have known she was toast. Trust is fast being eroded.

I desperately want Labour and Starmer to fix this because the alternative it too scary to think about but the way things are going they are fast-tracking Farage into No.10. Labour are letting us all down.

 

[Cancerian]

Angela Rayner had this country at her feet but as soon as I saw that photo of her lounging about in the kayak off her new seaside home, vaping and drinking! 

[malumbu]

4 hours ago, Rockets said:

Two wrongs don't make a right. Labour ran on a manifesto of "we aren't like them" and "we are different" and"you can trust us/we will restore faith in politics". They are doing nothing to convince anyone that any of those promises are being met - they are letting everyone down. u-turning on everything and are fast-tracking the doomsday scenario of a Reform government. Even the runway on the "it's all the Tories fault" is running out.

I

 

 

You are missing my point, there are a few here who are rabidly anti Labour.  And have lost sight of the many scandals associated with their party.  I've not made excuses for Rayner, rather I am inferring that it is hypocritical to go on about one of the major parties whilst ignoring your own dirty washing.  

1 hour ago, Cancerian said:

Angela Rayner had this country at her feet but as soon as I saw that photo of her lounging about in the kayak off her new seaside home, vaping and drinking! 

You are not making sense.  I expect half the country likes a drink and a sizeable number likes a vape.  What is your point?

[Rockets]

8 hours ago, malumbu said:

I've not made excuses for Rayner, rather I am inferring that it is hypocritical to go on about one of the major parties whilst ignoring your own dirty washing. 

Which is exactly why Rayner had to go - don't be the sleaze attack dog and then not keep your own house in order - the really shocking fact is she didn't go the moment this came to light because she knew what advice, and the advice to seek proper tax expertise that was given to her in writing by the very people she was trying to throw under the bus - she clearly thought she might be able to spin her way out of it. When you look at the facts, the advice she was given and when and her behaviour in the last few days it has been scandalous and just shows the contempt for the public intelligence some politicians have. Interesting to see a very unscientific vox pop on BBC News last night but a lot of her own constituents seem to want rid of her as well and to be honest if you have to lose your cabinet role for this breach of the rules then you should probably lose your seat too.

That is the hypocrisy here and why a lot of people don't like politicians because they're all the same.

[Spartacus]

16 hours ago, malumbu said:

 

Please give me a list of the Labour sleaze. And compare it to the Tories. 

 

I don't really care about political sleaze in this  i am more concerned about thjle ability to run.a country without running it into the ground.

Currently, labout seem to be heading straight towards the rocks, ignoring the warning blasts from the economic ighthouse. 

[malumbu]

So irrespective of the scandal how do you think that Rayner did as Housing Secretary?  

[Spartacus]

The change of use of the green belt to call it brown belt for building and overriding views of local councils and people on building large new estates in rural village areas cries out to me that she wasn't delivering what people wanted. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Spartacus

[ianr]

> The change of use of the green belt to call it brown belt for building

Has there been any reclassification?

[Rockets]

52 minutes ago, malumbu said:

So irrespective of the scandal how do you think that Rayner did as Housing Secretary?  

Her legacy will be the Deputy leader/Housing Secretary who was the Labour party's sleaze crime fighter who broke the ministerial code for not paying enough stamp duty on one of her houses. As Housing Secretary she probably should have known better. 

 

I wonder if she will defect to Corbyn where she will no doubt be welcomed with open arms and the words: "You did nothing wrong, it was all a media conspiracy comrade......"

[malumbu]

45 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

The change of use of the green belt to call it brown belt for building and overriding views of local councils and people on building large new estates in rural village areas cries out to me that she wasn't delivering what people wanted. 

 

So what do people want?  More housing.  More affordable housing.  But not in my back yard. That applies to urban areas too.  Easy to criticise, but where are your answers?

[Sephiroth]

Given her role, she pretty much had to go. I don't think she is an avid tax-schemer who deliberately set out to avoid tax - I do pretty much believe her story of multiple high-profile roles and looking after a child with needs. But many regular voters juggle demanding jobs and families and are afforded no leeway by taxman, so she totally should have known better

But here we are - she was found to be negligent and now she has suffered teh consequence. To me that its the OPPOSITE of all parties/politicians as generally the ignore the whole thing (today we have Tice saying Farage's tax affairs are of no interest to voters for example)

And it would be poor form to not acknowledge why she was targeted quite so viciously - we even have posters on here here saying "when I saw her taping on a boat that was the  end for me" - like the end of what?. Her gender and class were clear motivators for many people. Two wrongs don't make a right - but it';s interesting to see some posters on here give so many others a blank cheque. Many are planning to vote for Farage despite his dishonesty being 100x worse than Rayner

PS - I don't think she will join Corbyn party - unlike him she is smart and unlike him she recognises that being In power means you can at least stand a chance of delivering results

2 minutes ago, malumbu said:

So what do people want?  More housing.  More affordable housing.  But not in my back yard. That applies to urban areas too.  Easy to criticise, but where are your answers?

This. The Greens will have a rise in the polls on back of new leader but that is one hell of a coalition of NIMBY/YIMBYs

As what would Reform do if in government to help with... well, anything?

 

Labour can at least point to decreasing waiting lists, lower immigration numbers, not having a different PM every 6 months - not that anyone is listening

[malumbu]

Thanks @Sephiroth

I was thinking along the same lines (demonisation of Rayner by the media) and came across this article yesterday from Manchester Evening News.  It doesn't excuse her, but the title "Angela Rayner's real offence was being a working class woman in power" is self explanatory.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/angela-rayners-real-offence-being-32422596

The crossing legs nonsense is particularly telling.

[Rockets]

13 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I don't think she is an avid tax-schemer who deliberately set out to avoid tax - I do pretty much believe her story of multiple high-profile roles and looking after a child with needs. But many regular voters juggle demanding jobs and families and are afforded no leeway by taxman, so she totally should have known better

But at the same time those she sought for advice told her, very clearly, she needed to seek specialist advice which she did not do and carried on regardless. So I think the jury is out on whether this was a legitimate mistake or not.

[Spartacus]

28 minutes ago, malumbu said:

So what do people want?  More housing.  More affordable housing.  But not in my back yard. That applies to urban areas too.  Easy to criticise, but where are your answers?

So you are justifying building on the green belt, in Londons case "the lungs of London" which will causes harm to natures ability to turn co2 into o2? 

[Rockets]

4 minutes ago, malumbu said:

I was thinking along the same lines (demonisation of Rayner by the media) and came across this article yesterday from Manchester Evening News.  It doesn't excuse her, but the title "Angela Rayner's real offence was being a working class woman in power" is self explanatory.

Let's be very clear some of her friends are cleary trying to say she lost her job due to a media conspiracy. This is nonsense. She lost her job because she broke the ministerial code of conduct - that has nothing to do with the media.

Was she under the spotlight because she was outspoken and happy to aggressivley attack any indiscretion of her opponents? Absolutely.

But what's that saying: those who shout loudest often have the most to hide...never has that seemed more apt?

Given that scrutiny she would have been wise to have been whiter than white but she wasn't and she has paid the price.

[ianr]

2 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

So you are justifying building on the green belt, in Londons case "the lungs of London" which will causes harm to natures ability to turn co2 into o2? 

I see that there was a government consultation started in July 2024, a response, and then a revision to the National Planning Policy Framework, and then to the Green Belt guidance in February 2025, https://www.gov.uk/guidance/green-belt .  It includes the updates but doesn't give the nescient much clue of what was materially changed. There will probably be some good, and less good, summaries to be found. 

[Insuflo]

19 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Sorry @malumbuI'm old enough to remember things like the mass unemployment in the late 70s (down to labour) along with inflation running high, 4 day weeks and so on. So its not just about sleaze but wrecking the economy. 

 

But not old enough to remember the highest unemployment rate, inflation and interest rates in history in the early eighties under the Tories? A rather selective memory you have.

There has never been a four-day week: it was a three-day week imposed by the Conservative government under the Blasted Heath.

[David Peckham]

Well, I made £50 out of it and Alice owes me another bullseye, so I had a good day

Clearly the thread has moved on, but just a final few words on Rayner (from me, at least). If she hadn't gone like this (with a chance to revive her career at some point in the future) there's plenty of other stuff loaded up and ready to be fired at her about the motivation, finances and machinations of her move down South. It's not pretty reading. Tawdry doesn't come close.

I was born in Ashton Hospital and grew up in Tameside, I've got a lot of friends and family who weren't as lucky as me and didn't make it out, some close to her constituency party, and there's been a lot of bad feeling around 'Our Ange' for a long time.

My favourite quote was: 'She should fuck off back to Stockport.' And that was from a party member.

The writing was on the wall for her.

Moving from Ashton (majority c6.5k, large Pakistani minority, but predominantly white working class and targeted by both the Independent Alliance and Reform) to Hove (majority c20k, neither of these issues with the electorate) was a pretty cynical move, and she's fucked it royally.

'The Honourable Member for Hove and Portslade' will be sleeping a lot easier in their bed tonight.

This thread was never supposed to about Labour bashing, and I'm not sure it is. It's definitely descended into 'Whataboutery', and that seems to be the problem, in my mind at least, with British politics.

It's playground stuff, he said/she said, blame-game bollocks. Watch PMQs and ask yourself if you'd accept this sort of behaviour amongst toddlers, let alone in an elected parliament.

One thing that does stand out is the opposition to Reform across the board, and yet we seem to be sleepwalking towards a likely scenario where Farage could head up a minority Reform government.

I've 'followed' politics since the late Seventies - mainly because the BBC News came on right after 'Roobard and Custard' or 'The Magic Roundabout' - and I can't remember an era where both major parties are so bereft of leadership, direction or ideas.

There's a certain irony that we'll all be getting a test text on Sunday to warn us of an impending 'National Emergency'.

Seems quite prescient.

[Sephiroth]

I don’t think Reform will withstand the heat of any election.  Finding enough people to stand will be bad enough. Finding credible ones quite a bid tougher 

I think yes this government is lacking in a long term plan and has not had a good first year. Today the least.  

but the speed with which this was dealt with is a notable shift compared to last 14 years where months would drag by and we would constantly be told to draw a line under 

if Labour called an election tomorrow, there is not a single party that could present a better alternative with any credibility. And that’s a low bar

Reform are dangerous lunatics but more worrying is the descent of the Tories into the same swamp

i also worry that England voters have contracted some melodrama virus after the Tories where we had 5 PMs in almost as many years 

it’s ok for governments to be unpopular without needing to have an election every 1-2 years

 

 

 

Looks like Lucy Connolly will me one of those Reform candidates at next election

tells you everything you need to know about that party and where the country would be headed