Next PSC National March for Palestine 11th October 2025 12:00 pm - 4:30 pm Central London

[sjsl]

I'm confused now, your link illustrates the size of exports quite clearly?

[HeadNun]

CPR Dave said "Our government doesn't make or sell any arms at all to anyone". His link highlights that the gvmt has issued licences to UK companies who manufacture and export components and software to other nations. It's not like the government has a bomb making department and is shipping them straight to Israel.

His link also illustrates that UK sales to other nations make us complicit in plenty of other unpleasant conflicts. But this hasn't given rise to other mass demonstrations. 

I doubt anyone on here is a supporter of Netanyahu and his cronies, but it's always worth bearing in mind that Israel has been instrumental in keeping us safe from Iran, who orchestrated this wave of the middle east conflict. But there are, of course, no anti Iran protests, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc 

 

[Sue]

3 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

Our government doesn't make or sell any arms at all to anyone. 

?????

Obviously there isn't a weapon making factory at Westminster. 

And your response to my other questions?

Edited yesterday at 12:28 by Sue

[CPR Dave]

They aren't really relevant. 

This protest is purportedly against our government's involvement arming Israel.

Our government doesn't sellweapons and Israel is no longer at war with Hamas.

So the protest is pointless. The only reason to attend now is to intimidate / antagonise / express hatred towards Jews.

[alice]

wasnt there an excel Arms Fair a couple of weeks ago

[CPR Dave]

Excel hosts fairs for various businesses selling all sorts of things week in, week out. 

 

For example, next week it is "Salon Interntional".  No doubt there will be UK businesses exhibiting there who donate tax receipts to the UK government from sales of shampoo to people who live in Israel. Does that cause you outrage?

Edited yesterday at 18:55 by CPR Dave

[TomSE22]

9 hours ago, HeadNun said:

CPR Dave said "Our government doesn't make or sell any arms at all to anyone". His link highlights that the gvmt has issued licences to UK companies who manufacture and export components and software to other nations. It's not like the government has a bomb making department and is shipping them straight to Israel.

His link also illustrates that UK sales to other nations make us complicit in plenty of other unpleasant conflicts. But this hasn't given rise to other mass demonstrations. 

I doubt anyone on here is a supporter of Netanyahu and his cronies, but it's always worth bearing in mind that Israel has been instrumental in keeping us safe from Iran, who orchestrated this wave of the middle east conflict. But there are, of course, no anti Iran protests, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc 

 

Keeping us safe from Iran by bombing them while they were negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty with the US? 
 

Have you ever been threatened by Iran as a Brit?

[CPR Dave]

Not less than four months ago.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98wjzj4jlpo

Edited 23 hours ago by CPR Dave

[Sue]

7 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

They aren't really relevant. 

This protest is purportedly against our government's involvement arming Israel.

Our government doesn't sellweapons and Israel is no longer at war with Hamas.

So the protest is pointless. The only reason to attend now is to intimidate / antagonise / express hatred towards Jews.

I think they are relevant.

So would you like to answer them?

And also explain your last sentence above? How exactly would going on the march now  "intimidate/antagonise/express hatred towards Jews"?

Do you think the Jewish people on the march are there to express hatred against themselves?

[HeadNun]

Yes Tom. And by assassinating several senior members of the Revolutionary Guard. It also means Palestinians are safer. 

Edited 11 hours ago by HeadNun

[Apeks]

12 hours ago, Sue said:

Do you think the Jewish people on the march are there to express hatred against themselves?

They can't answer this Sue, it baffles their brains.

They also think selling arms and selling shampoo are comparable so it's fairly pointless engaging in this thread anymore. 

[Angelina]

Trump is after a Nobel peace prize; the paradox of USA providing arms and seeking accolade when they stop. Very heated debate on the radio about this. 

There are so many contradictions within this that don't make sense.

[IlonaM]

42 minutes ago, Angelina said:

Trump is after a Nobel peace prize...

He didn't get it! Huge sigh of relief.

Giving Trump the Nobel Peace Prize would tarnish its repution and irreparably harm its credibility. He personifies everything that Nobel Peace Laureates are not. You only need to see what he is doing to his own citizens and to some of the most vulnerable members of our world community.

 

[Angelina]

2 minutes ago, IlonaM said:

He didn't get it! Huge sigh of relief.

Giving Trump the Nobel Peace Prize would tarnish its repution and irreparably harm its credibility. He personifies everything that Nobel Peace Laureates are not. You only need to see what he is doing to his own citizens and to some of the most vulnerable members of our world community.

 

I think it the peace deal was a bit late for him to be considered this year - but it's on the cards for next year - hence the debates about it. Very strong opinions in each direction, depending on where you stand on the entire thing.

[IlonaM]

7 minutes ago, Angelina said:

I think it the peace deal was a bit late for him to be considered this year - but it's on the cards for next year - hence the debates about it. Very strong opinions in each direction, depending on where you stand on the entire thing.

He has been lobbying hard for the past few years for the Peace Prize. To date he has failed every time. 

Now we have Starmer the Appeaser suggesting he should get it for the Gaza deal. Far too early to talk about a lasting peace and, given the deliberate delays by Trump and the West and the horrendous harm caused, Trump is not Nobel Laureate material. 

Zelensky is trying the carrot trick - I'll nominate Trump for the Nobel if he stops Russia - desperate but dangerous.

Edited 8 hours ago by IlonaM

[Jenijenjen]

4 minutes ago, IlonaM said:

 

Now we have Starmer the Appeaser suggesting he should get it for the Gaza deal. Far too early to talk about a lasting peace and, given the deliberate delays by Trump and the West and the horrendous harm caused, Trump is not Nobel Laureate material. 

Agree

But neither is he President of the USA material. And look what's happened. Twice.

[IlonaM]

Just now, Jenijenjen said:

Agree

But neither is he President of the USA material. And look what's happened. Twice.

Ha!!! Quite! But hopefully the Nobel Committee have their heads screwed on and are immune to the Big Orange Head!

[HeadNun]

If he doesn't get it. Will he spit the dummy out and stop brokering peace deals? Or give up on current ones. 

[IlonaM]

Yes, I've been waiting for his throwing the dummy out of he pram response. Maybe he didn't stay up for the announcement, or his staff are delaying telling him??!!!

Edited 7 hours ago by IlonaM

[IlonaM]

No surprise here from Netanyahu:

 

1 hour ago, IlonaM said:

Yes, I've been waiting for his throwing the dummy out of he pram response. Maybe he didn't stay up for the announcement, or his staff are delaying telling him??!!!

Oh-oh, Trump's woken up

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/10/trump-nobel-peace-prize-reaction

"White House slams Trump’s perceived Nobel peace prize snub as ‘politics over peace’

President has ‘heart of humanitarian’, spokesperson says after unsuccessful bid for prize amid Gaza ceasefire deal"

Edited 6 hours ago by IlonaM

[Sephiroth]

5 hours ago, Jenijenjen said:

Agree

But neither is he President of the USA material. And look what's happened. Twice.

Starmer hasnt said that’s far as I can see? About Trump deserving the Nobel prize  I mean 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sephiroth

[malumbu]

I'm finding this rather bizarre, rather than be cautiously optimistic some of you look at this to have an opportunity to have a go at Starmer and Trump.  The former has to adopt an approach this involves flattery to get any influence over the most powerful person in the world.  Sure he could and should have gone harder in terms of Gaza and opposing the genocide, and there are some questions over some arms sales.  I expect now we have vicars as terrorists the PA decision will prove wrong.  There are those in his own party who will continue to press him on this.  48 percent of the country say they would vote for a right wing party if their was an election today. Farage reportedly has denied that there is a genocide ongoing in Gaza and said he would not block any weapons exports to Israel if Reform UK came to power.  Badenoch's own words (on X) Recognising a Palestinian state won't bring the hostages home, won't end the war and won't get aid into Gaza.

So it's reasonable to assume that around half the country would not support a stronger stance on criticising Israel's action.

I don't have a lot of good things to say about Trump.  Yet if he can or has brought about a stable solution in Gaza then that will be great news.  That he didn't do this earlier, and in my view caused so many problems with the move of their embassy which in turn may have emboldened Hamas, remain valid issues, as do what the US is going to get out of it.

As regards to earlier debate.  Israel protecting the UK from Iran just sounds bizarre.  The UK's position is that extensive diplomacy and a deal is the way forward.

Yes there are so many other conflicts in the world that don't get the same level of attention.  But how many of these are directly due to a western democracy's extreme military action and starvation against a territory?

I'm with the march in spirit but for apathy or whatever reason wont be there.  For those of you who consider it is antisemitic go and join the march and see.  I went to one of the large earlier demos and there was such a friendly and positive spirit despite the cause.  Yet the media pick on the occasional extreme incident, highly selective.  I'd prefer of they called it a peace protest rather than a pro-Palestine march.  I think it is right to look at the immediate desperate situation, and decouple from the longer term - albeit that the two station solution has to be the way forward and Israeli settlements are wrong.  Hopefully once there is a proper peace Netanyahu will go one way or another (I'm taking prosecution).

[IlonaM]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Starmer hasnt said that’s far as I can see? About Trump deserving the Nobel prize  I mean 

 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-donald-trump-nobel-peace-prize-gaza-deal-b1252133.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1760028650.

 

That's how it was reported at the time. Most sources now are saying he would not be drawn on whether Trump deserved the Nobel peace prize for Gaza.

Edited 19 minutes ago by IlonaM

[malumbu]

Why are we even discussing this?  If Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize he can put in on the mantelpiece with his dodgy golf trophies. We all know he is an egotist and an award wont suddenly make us admire him.

Worth catching up on Radio 4's Newsquiz that was discussing the peace deal and Trump as I was typing my previous post.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006r9yq

[IlonaM]

Unfortunately we can see from the history of the Israel -Palestine situation that a peace accord now won't necessarily lead to long-term peace and statehood for the Palestinians. This has been going on for decades, ever since the Palestine authority gave refugee status to Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s. Britain has a shameful role in handing the problem on to the League of Nations and since then the world has watched on and done nothing or very little.