The Mansion Tax

[CPR Dave]

Yes. Too many students.

[Angelina]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-hackney-kent-council-homes-asylum-seekers-home-office-b1265065.html

£200m of new homes to be built for asylum seekers.

 

We have a hosing crisis - high levels of homelessness - including children, soaring rents, rising house prices, shortage of homes - and our solution? 

• Tax BTL landlords (leading to increased rent to cover tax liabilities),
• Encourage oversees investors (tax incentives as no tax liability)
• Encourage corporations to buy properties (increase rent to increase profit and tax planning to reduce liability)
• Prioritise new homes for asylum seekers.
• Raise money from taxing owners of expensive homes
• increase stamp duty

WHERE IS THE LOGIC

 

 

Edited yesterday at 13:31 by Angelina

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Angelina said:

We have a hosing crisis - high levels of homelessness - including children, soaring rents, rising house prices, shortage of homes - and our solution? 

• Tax BTL landlords (leading to increased rent to cover tax liabilities),
• Encourage oversees investors (tax incentives as no tax liability)
• Encourage corporations to buy properties (increase rent to increase profit and tax planning to reduce liability)
• Prioritise new homes for asylum seekers.
• Raise money from taxing owners of expensive homes
• increase stamp duty

WHERE IS THE LOGIC

1 and 3: rent is determined by supply and demand, not input costs.

2: foreign landlords are subject to UK tax for UK property rentals.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-resident-landord-guidance-notes-for-letting-agents-and-tenants-non-resident-landlords-scheme-guidance-notes/what-the-non-resident-landlords-scheme-is

4: paying squalid hotels to house asylum seekers short term is fantastically expensive. This £200m is a relatively small amount (compared to the housing market as a whole) and will lead to a small increase in the amount of short term housing stock owned by councils.

5 and 6: because that's where the money is.

 

You didn't mention the other "solution" proposed by various NIMBYs: oppose infill housing projects like the one discussed here and attempt to reduce their size wherever possible based on disingenuous arguments.

[Angelina]

Yes - I meant to say low tax liability not no tax liability for offshore investors rental income - It's limited to 20% regardless of income band (unlike UK residents) and of course there are CGT benefits as well

As for new homes for asylum seekers - cost avoidance? Yes - it may be expensive providing hotel accom - but prioritising building new homes when so many are already needed but not being built? Would you not think that reducing the need would be more cost effective?

 

As to why rent is so high, it is down to cost - which is now mortgage + tax liability (which is increased due to S24) + profit - not just supply / demand.  But it does have a real impact - the demographic of London is changing to older, wealthier, owners (not all asset rich are cash rich).

It's undeniable that there is a housing crisis. Are we doing enough of the right things to reduce it though?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

32 minutes ago, Angelina said:

but prioritising building new homes when so many are already needed but not being built? 

Central and local government are going to have to do multiple things at once (as opposed to the James Barber approach of "there are other things that need to be done by other people elsewhere, so we shouldn't approve building new housing here").

£200m across multiple councils across the whole of England and Wales is not going to crowd out opportunities to build more social housing and to approve other housing built at private expense.

[Angelina]

that's missing the point

 

[CPR Dave]

Homes for people who have been granted asylum is one thing. Homes for asylum seekers is something else.

 

[beansprout]

Strange isn’t it…..other European countries s actually come up with solutions to house homeless people, which are pod structure, use of office blocks, etc. homeless are provided with thermals, warm sleeping bag and tent or pop up tent plus tech friendly clothing which means they are warm in extreme conditions. Us in UK? Nothing but chuckinto house of multiple occupation, which is usually not warm and not all have mould, but some do.. live in one room even if you are a family with good only knows what other sort of people…  not referring to ethinicity here but more along the lines of mental health problems, drugs, alcoholics. Single and families all in one property. Or if you are one of the lucky ones, into a hotel you go…  

Why don’t we as a nation claw back more money in the form of tax  or avoidance avoidance, off shore accounts or other ways that rich or investors do buck the system….

[DuncanW]

5 hours ago, Angelina said:

As to why rent is so high, it is down to cost - which is now mortgage + tax liability (which is increased due to S24) + profit - not just supply / demand.  But it does have a real impact - the demographic of London is changing to older, wealthier, owners (not all asset rich are cash rich).

I would challenge that. Price is a function of supply and demand - that's what I learnt at school anyway.

It doesn't matter what your costs are, if supply increases and demand remains constant, prices (rents) will fall. And vice versa

[James Barber]

 

Hi DuncanW, Price is a function of supply and demand where demand is a function of the taxation or properties, price and availability of finance for all the different type of buyers both domestic and foreign individual and business and corporate. Much foreign buying also have some cultural issues around not buying or even using second hand homes so they remain empty - see lack of lights on riverside proprieties in London. 

Hi beansprout, Finland solution, admittedly a much smaller country, that housing the homeless is significantly cheaper than not housing them in terms of health, social ,etc costs. 

 

Southwark has the joint highest number of empty council homes, and second worst total number of empty homes a smidgen behind Barnet Council in London - https://www.selondoner.co.uk/news/16052025-southwark-council-sees-most-empty-homes-owned-as-long-term-vacants-increase-again . 

We do have infill sites in the area. Infiill sites are small parcels of land. The Railway site isn't an infill site, it's too big. It is a raised area by roughly two storeys compared to the area where a  9 storey tower and other 7 & 8 storey blocks will be built on top. This is totally out of character for the area. Many residents will be directly impacted. Other developers on the night told me after the Panning Committee approval that they were shocked it had been approved. It has changed their attitudes of what can be approved in the area.

Dulwich Hamlet ground has very recently been approved to be moved to Metropolitan Open Land green open space to allow the current ground to be rebuilt into from memory 248 flats. It seems clear Labour councils have been directed by the Labour Government to 'approve baby approve'.

Southwark Council and the Labour Government are planning the reduction in the proportion of Social Housing in new housing developments from 35% to 20%. This likely to delay a number of approved schemes while they recycle through the planning process to reduce their social housing numbers. 

WRT student numbers. The peak is forecast in 2030 with rapid decline thereafter. International students numbers already declining. What will happen to these blocks of small studio rooms in the longer term once student numbers are down? Students likely to choose more centrally located blocks. Current student accommodation such as Champion Hill has been closed for a number of years with no rush to reopen it so King's doesn't appear to feel pressure on the student accommodation front. 

 

[beansprout]

Well that is pure insanity to have available accommodation be it for students or medical staff remain empty when folk are crying out for accommodation… let’s face it, it is tax payers who are paying or subsidising all these hotel accommodation, etc….

kings wouldn’t… why would they? Having said that, with the dire condition of nhs, would have thought they would not  turn down a way of generating income after all they have maintenance Sept  and if thru council , which ever rent is guaranteed…

Finland might be smaller but a much cheaper solution than what we doin UK… and yes, totally agree need to look at total picture, education, health, jobs, schooling etc…

 

[DuncanW]

1 hour ago, James Barber said:

Hi DuncanW, Price is a function of supply and demand where demand is a function of the taxation or properties, price and availability of finance for all the different type of buyers both domestic and foreign individual and business and corporate. Much foreign buying also have some cultural issues around not buying or even using second hand homes so they remain empty - see lack of lights on riverside proprieties in London. 

I'm sure there's a coherent point in there somewhere, but I can't fathom what it might be TBH

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

28 minutes ago, James Barber said:

1] Much foreign buying also have some cultural issues around not buying or even using second hand homes so they remain empty - see lack of lights on riverside proprieties in London. 

2] We do have infill sites in the area. Infiill sites are small parcels of land. The Railway site isn't an infill site, it's too big.

3] a  9 storey tower and other 7 & 8 storey blocks will be built on top. This is totally out of character for the area.

4] It seems clear Labour councils have been directed by the Labour Government to 'approve baby approve'.

5] Current student accommodation such as Champion Hill has been closed for a number of years with no rush to reopen it so King's doesn't appear to feel pressure on the student accommodation front. 

So much nonsense in a single post!

1) this vaguely xenophobic stuff is based on a belief that London is full of houses owned by foreigners that are kept empty and out of the hands of native buyers and renters. This is unmitigated bullshit.

"England has the lowest rate of empty homes in the OECD, and Greater London has about one-tenth the level of Paris, just 0.7% of properties being empty compared to 6.5%...the effect on the general housing crisis is minuscule. London, Oxford, Cambridge, Brighton and other cities have eye-wateringly expensive housing because of high demand and low supply. That’s the obvious and boring answer."

https://www.edwest.co.uk/p/the-myth-of-londons-empty-homes

2) where do you get this idea that infill sites have to be small? Southwark and the GLA planning documents explicitly recognise that industrial sites can be infill sites.

3) It is simply factually untrue and misleading that taller buildings are out of character for the area of the development. The neighbouring school has taller blocks, Hambledon Court on the other side of the tracks is a taller building, the Dog Kennel Hill estate on the other side of the station consists of taller buildings.

4) if that is the lesson you have taken away, then is your opposition to this new housing in East Dulwich part of a Lib Dem policy to "deny, baby, deny"? Let's be real for a second: there is no way out of the housing crisis that doesn't involve building lots of new housing. If we can't build on top of a disused builder's yard above a railway station, where are we going to build in this neighbourhood?

5) This is also nonsense. The student accommodation was initially closed because of systemic fire risks that made the buildings unsafe. KCL is now halfway through totally renovating the blocks and expanding capacity. KCL gets twice as many applications for student accommodation as it can fulfil. KCL just opened another 452 student rooms in Battersea - so clearly they don't have a concern about a cataclysmic decline in student numbers.

https://www.rlb.com/europe/projects/kcl-champion-hill/

https://roarnews.co.uk/2024/kcl-accommodation-still-empty-four-years-after-evacuation/

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2025/03/03/watkin-jones-wins-30m-student-digs-campus-upgrade/

 

It is really disappointing that someone involving themselves in planning matters is relying on (and spreading) prejudices, misconceptions and misinformation like this.

[malumbu]

Cheers @Dogkennelhillbilly

 

Fascinating edition of More of Less on Radio 4 on the oft quoted figure of 3/4 million empty homes in the UK.  That is a snap shot on one day on properties excluded from council tax including the owner dying, being renovated, moved house and the like.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002phn6

Right, off to talk more stats on the transport threads.

PS Victoria got some stats very wrong on Newsnight on Venezuelan oil exports which the US/Venezuelan hawk/spokesperson did not contradict. 

 

[CPR Dave]

It's also worth noting there are more people leaving the UK now than arriving. 

We'll soon have a surplus of housing so no need to build many more.

Suspect if this story is anything to go by the mansion tax may not end up being levied here after all. House price crash incoming.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buying-selling/stuck-in-seven-bedroom-house-stagnant-property-market/

 

Also developers stop building when buyers stop buying.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

3 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

It's also worth noting there are more people leaving the UK now than arriving.

This isn't true either. In the year up to June 2025, the UK had 898,000 immigrants and 693,000 emigrants. Net migration was therefore +204,000 into the UK.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025