Rental Property Issue - Please Help

[SueOrr0103]

Hello,

I need your help with my rental property as I'm kind of stuck and do not know what to do next.

I have property that I have rented out successfuly. A few months back we noticed a leak from the kitchen ceiling coming apparently from the flat above. The leak initially was small so I did not bother. In a month's time the leak became a lot more heavy. So I went to the flat above mine and was told that it was managed by the council and the tenants were also let by the council.

As the leak was significant and was damaging the plaster work in the kitchen, I got a builder in who said it would cost ?600 to fix it. I have explained all this to the council, which involved filling out forms, sending them pics of the damage, etc. They agree that there is a leak from the property being managed by them, but they have refused to pay for the damage done and for me to fix my ceiling.

The council have explained that they send their plumber in to their property and he has confirmed that the plumbing is sound. But they can see the leak into mine.

What should I do next of course apart from shell out the money and fix it myself? The problem is the same thing happened 6 years back. At that time as well I had to fix my ceiling. Its like being stuck witha n unruly neighbour!!!

Please advice.

Thanks

Sue

[womanofdulwich]

surely this is for your insurers to deal with?

[SueOrr0103]

Hi Womanofdulwich,

I spoke to the building insurers who manage both our flats and they said they deal with only communal issues. i.e. communal pipes, etc. Because this is an issue of leak from 1 property to another, the owner of the property has to be contacted. And in my case the owner of the property has leased the management of it to the council :-(

Sue

[Huggers]

we had a leak from a flat above that brought our ceiling down twice when we lived in rented accommodation in Pimlico. It turned out to be a lack of grouting around the bath of the upstairs tenant. It was very hard to detect as not obvious. But the small amounts of water getting past the bath when she had a shower accumulated and became a big leak which was able to cause massive damage. Hard to prove but was proved in the end.

[giggirl]

Poor you. The problem with leaks is that they are sometimes not immediately obvious. A very slow drip will do a lot of damage over time. Am I right in thinking that the ?600 is just to fix the water damage in your flat? Waste of time doing that until the source of the damage has been found. The first thing is obviously to find the leak. I'm no expert but I think that if the upstairs flat is the cause of the leak I don't see how the council can get out of paying. Good luck.

[SueOrr0103]

Yep ?600 is just to fix my ceiling that has been damaged by the leak. There has been a number of mails/ letters between me and the council. They have sent me 1 third one y'day saying they will not pay for the damages.

I dont mind paying it this time, but what if it happens again! I cant keep paying for someone else's fault. Hence who do I escalate t his to if the council refuse to pay?

[giggirl]

I think you'd be crazy to spend ?600 without finding the cause of the leak because it will probably happen again. If the damage is just cosmetic - i.e. the kitchen doesn't look so good but is useable - then I will just put up with it for now until you can find where the water came from.

[womanofdulwich]

but the owner of your flat may still have insurance for the flat itself- especially if they have a mortgage on it. it is their investment and they need to protect it. if its leaking they will not get tenants-

check what your tenancy agreement says too. but go to the owner of your flat directly if you can. they will be more concerned to protect their investment.

[Sue]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> but the owner of your flat may still have

> insurance for the flat itself- especially if they

> have a mortgage on it. it is their investment and

> they need to protect it. if its leaking they will

> not get tenants-

> check what your tenancy agreement says too. but go

> to the owner of your flat directly if you can.

> they will be more concerned to protect their

> investment.

xxxxxx

My understanding is that the OP IS the owner of the flat?

[womanofdulwich]

but each individual flat must have building insurance, which should cover this. it will be a condition of your mortgage, however if you dont have a mortgage then you may not have building insurance- but thats pretty unusual.

[Mustard]

I am going to post a thread for something similarish, although it involves a neighbouring property. Will post in Lounge.

[SueOrr0103]

Womanofdulwich,

I'm the owner of my flat and have a buildings insurance. The owner of the property above me also has the buildings insurance from the same provider. However, when talking to the buildings insurance provider, they said that they only provide cover for communal building related issues not for individual flats.

I do not have an insurance for my individual flat. Dont think it was required when I got my mortgage, about 6 yreas back.

Sue

[DaveR]

Sue

I'm assuming that you have a long lease, and there is also a long lease for the flat above. The terms of the respective leases set out your responsibilities and also that of the freeholder. In a normal case a leaseholder will have an absolute responsibility to prevent water leaking from their premises into that of another leaseholder and will be liable for any damage caused. They can't avoid responsibility/liability by saying that they cannot find the leak. It's also fairly normal for the freeholder to have a responsiblity to ensure that each leaseholder complies with the terms of their leases insofar as it affects other leaseholders.

Obviously I don't know in your case who in fact are the leaseholders and freeholder - it may or may not be the council - but you need to get pushy with them. As has already been observed, there's not mch point in getting a repair done if the leak hasn't been fixed.

[James Barber]

Sue email me directly.

We will get this sorted out ASAP for you.

[Burbage]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> but each individual flat must have building

> insurance, which should cover this. it will be a

> condition of your mortgage, however if you dont

> have a mortgage then you may not have building

> insurance- but thats pretty unusual.

That's not right.

It's the freeholder, who is deemed to own the building, to sort out the buildings insurance. The leaseholders just get to pay for it through their service charge.

But the buildings insurers probably won't cover cases like this. After all, they're selling to freeholders, who aren't be in the slightest way troubled by such matters, so there's no reason to take on a liability that they don't need to.

The leaseholders, because they don't own the buildings, will not be able to get buildings insurance on an individual bases (even if they did want to pay twice for it). They can get contents insurance but, naturally, that won't cover stuff like this.

I suspect that the quickest way to deal with this sort of problem is to trot along to the small claims court and put in a case against the flat above's leaseholder. That probably won't get anything done in a meaningful timescale, but it'll be more likely to get things started than arguing the toss with insurers and freeholders, and a modestly-priced demonstration that you mean business. Otherwise these things can creep on for years, which may affect your ability to sell the place should you ever feel the need to cash in your sense of community for a bunch of filthy lucre.

[KidKruger]

Sue keep your receipts and keep reminding the council you intend to chase for their payment.

The impression I get from your decription is that you've paid for the leak damage to be fixed, not the leak. This will only be OK if the leak was a one-off, i.e. a flood due to accidentally over-filling the bath.

However, even if it's a one-pff, you had to deal with it and suffered financially and are due your bread back.

If it happens again, you have the right to take care of remedials yourself if it's dangerous or if you've tried repeatedly to get council / leaseholder to repair the problem. Again the leaseholder/council owe you.

[SueOrr0103]

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