Be careful on the pavements...

[eastdulwichimp]

Word to the wise: please be careful if you’re around Dulwich Village during the school run. 

While walking on the pavement down Carlton Avenue this morning c. 8.45am, I was hit from behind by a child riding a bicycle. When I raised this with his father, he (the father) behaved inappropriately. I highlight the following tactics deployed against me, so if you choose to say anything, you may come off better in any exchange than I.

The father chose to make it more about how I reacted, rather than what had happened, namely that his son was riding on a pavement, seemingly without supervision, out of his father’s line of sight.

The father claimed I was over-reacting, said that his son was 4-years old and didn’t do it deliberately. He didn’t ask me if I was alright. And apologised with a ‘but’: “I’m sorry if he hit your leg, but your reaction is over the top.” 

He took no responsibility for his child’s action or his lack of parental supervision. As I walked away, I heard him and two other adults talking and laughing about my reaction – yes, laughing. 

I don’t think he or his son learned anything useful from the incident about keeping themselves and others safe, such that it would change their behaviour. I did and share it here as to place, time, nature of incident, minimising tactics etc. as a heads-up to others.

I didn’t sustain any injuries or damage to my clothing or property. Others who are older/younger, have mobility issues, walk with buggies, children, pets etc. may fare differently. Forewarned is forearmed, guys.

[Ryelander]

Maybe a slight overreaction? at least the child hadn't learned the art of grabbing your phone just yet!😉

[Penguin68]

48 minutes ago, mitchiner said:

Its a mistake a 4 year old made

I think the point is that it was a mistake that the child's parent made, who should have been observing his child, training and teaching it appropriate and safe cycling  and been seen apologising for what was obviously not intentional but still 'wrong' cycling. His attitude didn't correct, but rather endorsed poor cycling behaviour. 

[malumbu]

It's a four year old.  You should have got an apology but we are taking your word for what happened.

ie how you handled the aftermath.

[alice]

What a revolting response. 
Coincidentally the almost exact same thing happened to me with a slightly older child, maybe six - the parent and friends seem to think it was OK. It wasn’t funny. It was very painful thoughtless and ignorant.

[CPR Dave]

Assume the parent was also on a bicycle?

[Jules-and-Boo]

Really shitty parenting, and sad level of arrogance. 
Some people are just not very nice and have no manners

 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

3 hours ago, eastdulwichimp said:

When I raised this with his father, he (the father) behaved inappropriately.

Sorry to hear you got a bump. There are people out there who could experience serious consequences from what would be a fairly minor stumble for other people, it's true. 

If you're raising it for discussion, how did you "raise it" with the guy? How do you think a neutral onlooker would have described the scene?

[Sue]

Seems to be a lot of victim blaming going on here.

Clearly a four year old child should not be riding a bike on a pavement out of sight of the adult who is supposed to be caring for him.

Also clearly if the child ran into somebody from behind, he is not ready to be riding a bike in a place where people may be walking.

Quite apart from the adult who in this case could have been badly hurt, so could the child.

I wonder how those people on here asking how it was handled would have reacted if it had been them? All sweetness and light and apologies for having had the temerity to get in the way of the child?

I'm pretty sure I would have been extremely shocked and annoyed.

[malumbu]

Wow what a lot of reactionary stuff going on here.  Even by the high bar set by others on the EDF.

So let's start with the title.  I thought wrong season for leaves on the pavement.  A bit late for ice, but it can still happen.  We all know about uneven pavements and tree roots.  Oh my word, perhaps Zombie apocalypse or sink holes.  Those damned Lime bikes?  But no, a four year old.

The streets are rightly or wrongly full of kids scooting and cycling to schools in the morning.  Would or could a four year old cause a serious injury hitting an adult, perhaps but unlikely.  I'd rather a child on two wheels on the pavement than a car driving them to school.

As said we are judging this on the original post.  We were not there.  We can not speculate.

How this is victim (were you really a victim?) blaming, I don't know.

How my response, similar to the previous two, is revolting, heavens knows.

There is a serious conversation to be had about middle class parents.  My they can be annoying.

And similarly for teenagers, adults, in particularly illegal ebikes including delivery riders, on the pavements,

There are threads on the latter on here already.  

But a four year old?  Really??

PS off to watch Newsnight and some more serious matters.

[Sue]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

Wow what a lot of reactionary stuff going on here.  Even by the high bar set by others on the EDF.

So let's start with the title.  I thought wrong season for leaves on the pavement.  A bit late for ice, but it can still happen.  We all know about uneven pavements and tree roots.  Oh my word, perhaps Zombie apocalypse or sink holes.  Those damned Lime bikes?  But no, a four year old.

The streets are rightly or wrongly full of kids scooting and cycling to schools in the morning.  Would or could a four year old cause a serious injury hitting an adult, perhaps but unlikely.  I'd rather a child on two wheels on the pavement than a car driving them to school.

As said we are judging this on the original post.  We were not there.  We can not speculate.

How this is victim (were you really a victim?) blaming, I don't know.

How my response, similar to the previous two, is revolting, heavens knows.

There is a serious conversation to be had about middle class parents.  My they can be annoying.

And similarly for teenagers, adults, in particularly illegal ebikes including delivery riders, on the pavements,

There are threads on the latter on here already.  

But a four year old?  Really??

PS off to watch Newsnight and some more serious matters.

Malumbu,  if none of us were there, does that mean that nobody should post anything on here unless they have witnesses from the EDF?

Why would someone post something like this if it  wasn't true?

This is not about whether children should or should not be cycling on the pavement. There are specific issues.

a) the child was out of sight of the person supposed to be caring for him b) he appears to have been  either not looking where he was going or was out of control of the bike c) if he did see that he was about to hit someone  he apparently did not give them any kind of warning  d)  a person was unexpectedly hit from behind whilst just walking along, which in my view makes him a victim e) does the title of the thread really matter as the issue was described in the first post?  f) nobody is blaming the child, they are blaming the person who should have been watching him g) do you really think it was acceptable for that person to find the situation funny?

5 minutes ago, Dave 3 said:

Completely jobless and lunatic behaviour coming on a forum and complaining about a 4 year old and the child’s bike riding skills. Honestly grow up

The OP was not complaining about the 4 year old.

They were complaining about an adult's lack of supervision of a 4 year old who was not capable of riding a bike and who hit someone from behind with no warning.

Also, apart from reading the OP more carefully, perhaps also choose your words more carefully. Jobless? Lunatic? Charming.

Edited Wednesday at 23:52 by Sue

[first mate]

@Sue said: nobody is blaming the child, they are blaming the person who should have been watching him g) do you really think it was acceptable for that person to find the situation funny?

This is the point. Adults are meant to teach their children by example. It sounds as though the adult guardian/ father in this case did not react appropriately. Had a truly sincere apology been given,  I suspect the OP would not have posted on here. It is possible the OP snapped in the heat of the moment, but they were possibly startled because they were hit from behind? If we are startled it can be instinctive to initially react with anger.

I also agree that it would be highly irresponsible to let any very young child ride or walk or do anything on a busy public street without supervision- most of all to protect the child. If in this case the child was out of the adult's line of sight that is perhaps another indication that the father needs a refresh in appropriate behaviour around a child, as well as his manners.

[ED4LYF]

Thank you, I will be vigilant

[eastdulwichimp]

Thanks everyone for your comments, all of which I’ve taken something from.

I originally posted to warn and help others learn from my experience – hence the title, first and last words of the post. However, the process of posting and reading your comments has helped me better make sense of what felt ‘off’ about the incident, why and what I’d do differently next time. I hadn’t expected this outcome, so thank you. 

It’s also yielded several ‘golden nugget’ insights, one of which I share here for others.

For context, I’m a longtime SE22 resident, who lives on a street with a primary school, so am used to scooting, cycling, walking with buggies, small children, pets etc. I like where I live and have never been struck on a pavement by anyone, on wheels or otherwise. I’ve been fortunate.

When walking down Carlton Avenue towards Dulwich Village yesterday, I was on the left-hand side of the pavement but – ‘golden nugget’ approaching – not as close to people’s front garden walls as I could have been. The cyclist came from behind and overtook on the inside i.e. passed between me and the wall. The gap was too narrow and he hit my leg.

For clarity, my original post was about the lack of adult supervision of a child. There’s been much comment here about the cyclist’s age. I didn’t know he was 4, until his father told me. I felt that this was a tactic – along with telling me I was over-reacting, talking about intent, apologising undercut with ‘but’ and laughing – to downplay and avoid taking responsibility for his part in the situation. But I accept that is my perception, readers weren’t there and may think differently.

What also felt ‘off’ is that the father didn’t see what happened or ask any questions to find out. What happened? Where did he hit you? How hard? Are you alright? Is my son alright? Is everyone alright? This sounds obvious but wasn’t to me until last night.

Back to age. Is the age of the cyclist important? If you consider it from the perspective of a four-year-old, it might be. He’s on his bike, helmet on, speeding along, sees a gap and thinks he can get through it. He doesn’t know and/or may never have been told about the risks (to himself and others) of undertaking on the left. Hits pedestrian.

I was not expecting to be hit from behind or the undertaking. But had I walked closer to the wall – and not left a potentially inviting gap – this probably wouldn’t have happened. This is just one ‘golden nugget’ I will take away. It’s something I can easily do, doesn’t depend on anyone else doing anything differently, and could contribute towards keeping myself and others safe.

All in all, posting here has been unexpectedly useful for me. I hope for others, too. I feel able to move forward with learnings, so thank you guys.

[Cyclemonkey]

Seems to be lot of words to say parents should be supervising their children properly and adults should not be cycling on pavements. 

[Penguin68]

26 minutes ago, Cyclemonkey said:

Seems to be lot of words to say parents should be supervising their children properly and adults should not be cycling on pavements. 

It was a response to long and at times clearly unhelpful, not to say insulting, comments including ones implying that the initial report was madey-uppy. 

[HeadNun]

41 minutes ago, Cyclemonkey said:

Seems to be lot of words to say parents should be supervising their children properly and adults should not be cycling on pavements. 

Mean and unnecessary. 

[claresy]

Children below 10 are under the age of criminal responsibility and I believe that although it's not strictly legal, police rarely make a fuss about them cycling on the pavement - it's a good way for them to practice regularly. I feel terrified seeing little children wobbling along on the road and would always have rather risked getting into trouble than endangering my child . I once saw a really little child cycling on Lordship Lane with her father and felt so worried I said something - and he told me it was because of people were complaining. In this case it was a tiny child and you weren't injured and nothing was damaged so it seems a bit of an over-reaction. It doesn't seem to me that what the father said to you was particularly rude although if he wasn't supervising I agree that wasn't responsible. 

[malumbu]

Children as young as 8, with a responsible adult, could and should be riding on the road if they are competent and confident.  Many from aged 9 onward get the chance to learn road riding skills at school and get out on the highway.  We should be normalising this.  

Society, be it parents who are ultra-cautious, and many drivers who may see cyclists as a nuisance/inferior and worse still don't understand the rule of priority, and giving cyclists appropriate space, is the issue.

Boroughs wide 20 mph are a great thing in this respect.

It isn't legal for anyone to scoot or cycle on the pavement.  As you say police will not take any action against children, and some will argue here against any cyclist on the pavement. The latter part of the sentence is another issue.