Westminster Council about to charge for motorcycle parking

[KalamityKel]

oh don't be so chav like sean :p

[PeckhamRose]

When the congestion charge started I seem to remember being at a KenQuestionTime at Queen Elizabeth Hall and he said that TfL had given money to the councils to create extra motorcycle parking bays. Not all of them did that.

I think this charge is appalling but ironically it is the same borough that has introduced bus lanes that we motorcyclists can ride into, which other boroughs except Richmond have not chosen to do.

I am forwarding this post to Motorcycle Action Group and TheLondonBikers websites, and vice versa.

Rhinestone Cowboy Wrote:

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> I think the problem started with the congestion

> charge.. made it free for bikes so everyone

> started to scooter in. then they realised that

> only a limited number of spaces so they change car

> spaces to bikes and they lose out on a revenue

> stream. I'm guessing but would not take long till

> City of London takes this up and then all

> boroughs.

[blinder999]

dazed&confused Wrote:

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So much for the

> Government trying to encourage environmentally

> friendly transport!

Motorbikes aren't environmentally friendly at all:

from the Guardian

Motorbikes are churning out more pollution than cars, even though they make up only a small fraction of vehicles on the roads, according to a report.

Tests on a selection of modern motorbikes and private cars revealed that rather than being more environmentally-friendly, motorbikes emit 16 times the amount of hydrocarbons, including greenhouse gases, three times the carbon monoxide and a "disproportionately high" amount of other pollutants, compared to cars. Ana-Marija Vasic at the Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Testing and Research, who led the research, said the need to legislate on emissions from motorbikes has been overlooked because there are so few on the roads. The oversight has lead to a paucity of research into ways of making their engines run more cleanly.

In Britain, there are 1,060,000 motorbikes on the road but more than 25m private cars.

Dr Vasic's tests showed that, especially in urban traffic, when motorcyclists frequently accelerated quickly, motorbike engines burned fuel inefficiently, giving a sharp peak in emissions. The yearly hydrocarbon emissions of the average two-wheeler in urban traffic measured up to 49 times higher than that of the average car, according to the study, due to be published in the journal Environmental Science and Technology.

"The importance of [motorbike] emissions has been underestimated in legislation, giving manufacturers little motivation to improve aftertreatment systems," said Dr Vasic. The tests were carried out on a variety of Yamaha, Piaggio and Honda 50cc scooters and Suzuki, Honda and BMW motorbikes with engine sizes ranging from 800cc to 1150cc.

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Took the bus into work today, one hour 10 mins. On thy bike it's 25. Guess it was good to try once

[SeanMacGabhann]

out of curiosity Rhinestone (and everytime I read one of your posts I'm singing Glenn Campbell for an hour!) which part of town were you headed. Across any of the bridges, it's rarely worth staying on the bus to the final stop - much better (and healthier) to get off and walk the last. Plus - you get reading done on that bus

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Showing ye age if you are singing Glen Campbell songs.. Grosvenor Sq guv'nor and so yes I know better routes in but have lived south of the river for one month so thought best to try out new things. I really don't like the idea of bus train tube walk. Sitting on the bus for an hour was fine and did indeed get much reading done. Think with schools out the journey would take a little longer. So next week will try another route in

[SeanMacGabhann]

With you on that - anything that involves more than bus + walk makes me reconsider the whole thing.

I worked near mayfair for 3 years - a bus OR (not and!) train to Victoria and a walk through GreenPark - lahvley

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

I'm going to walk to Northcross road and take the 185 to Victoria.. now if only I could find somewhere to park my horse.

[blinder999]

Rhinestone Cowboy Wrote:

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> Took the bus into work today, one hour 10 mins. On

> thy bike it's 25. Guess it was good to try once

I am tempted to get a motorbike (it's been a couple of years) - things such as this new charge put me off.

The bicycle takes me 35 minutes, SE22 to W8, and is all the exercise I ever have to take, so I'll probably stick with it for a few more years.

[david_carnell]

blinder999 Wrote:

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> Motorbikes aren't environmentally friendly at

> all:

> from the Guardian

>

> "The importance of emissions has been

> underestimated in legislation, giving

> manufacturers little motivation to improve

> aftertreatment systems," said Dr Vasic. The tests

> were carried out on a variety of Yamaha, Piaggio

> and Honda 50cc scooters and Suzuki, Honda and BMW

> motorbikes with engine sizes ranging from 800cc to

> 1150cc.>

This final paragraph reveals the fatal flaw in this test. These are large engine sizes for a motorbike. Scooters, which are the most common form of commuter motorcycle only have engines of 50cc - 125cc. Much smaller than those tested here. They are not nearly as polluting.

Very few motorcycle riders into central London would bother with something so powerful. It'd be like driving a Ferrari around town. My Pa, for eg, had a small engined Yamaha to commute on and something more powerful for the weekends and trips away.

[blinder999]

>

> This final paragraph reveals the fatal flaw in

> this test. These are large engine sizes for a

> motorbike. Scooters, which are the most common

> form of commuter motorcycle only have engines of

> 50cc - 125cc. Much smaller than those tested here.

the article states very clearly that they tested scooters as well. And anyone who's ever ridden behind a vespa or any other (particularly 2-stroke) scooter will tell you they emit the foulest of fumes

>

> Very few motorcycle riders into central London

> would bother with something so powerful.

not true. I see loads of big bikes every day on my commute, as well as loads of stinky old mid-range courier bikes

[david_carnell]

Sit behind something runnning off bio-gas and it stinks too, doesn't mean it's polluting.

Although the test did involve scooters and small engined bikes it would have been skewed by the larger engine machines. The same way as if you'd tested lots of Minis and Fiestas but also bunged in a Hummer and a GT40 as well - doesn't really give an accurate picture.

And most commuters use small engined machines. For eg I look at the bay outside my window and 90% are scooters or similar. I'm aware some use mid-range or larger bikes (esp. couriers) but they are certainly in the minority.

[blinder999]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Sit behind something runnning off bio-gas and it

> stinks too, doesn't mean it's polluting.

In the absence of a full breakdown of scooter vs motorbike relative pollution, I'll trust the evidence of my hacking cough and blackened lungs, and continue to opine that they are not 'environmentally friendly'

[PeckhamRose]

Indeed Mr Carnell (irony of name noted in this thread)

I have a small 125 and a larger tourer bike.

From door to door on either bike takes about 25 mins to Oxford Circus.

About an hour and a half on the 12 bus.

Both bikes are clean and don't smell (specially now SonOf-MarmoraMan cleaned one for me).

And once you get there, you've had a bike ride!

Meanwhile, you can get 850cc scooters now, and I believe a 1100 model is being proposed.

[david_carnell]

blinder999 Wrote:

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> In the absence of a full breakdown of scooter vs

> motorbike relative pollution, I'll trust the

> evidence of my hacking cough and blackened lungs,

> and continue to opine that they are not

> 'environmentally friendly'

Hyperbole? Not a bit of it I'm sure.

1100cc scooter?! Twist and go? Or with gears? At what point is that just a regular motorbike with a different seating position?

[SeanMacGabhann]

MarmoraBoy?

MarmoraJr?

MarmoraLad?

[kford]

"Motorbikes are churning out more pollution than cars, even though they make up only a small fraction of vehicles on the roads, according to a report."

Well, they're not, because there are fewer of them.

If you want a real polluter, how about the 22,000 London cabs which chug around all day long, giving out on average 265g/km CO2, more than a BMW X5?

[kford]

Oh, and blinder's hacking cough is more likely from diesel particulates, from said taxis and out-of-tune trucks and buses.

[blinder999]

kford Wrote:

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> Oh, and blinder's hacking cough is more likely

> from diesel particulates, from said taxis and

> out-of-tune trucks and buses.

at least it's not the woodbines then

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

So walked through Green Park to Victoria St ( 15 mins ) nice walk lots to look at. Then because I am a tool and did not check train times waited 45 mins for train to Peckham Rye. On the plus side took scooter in today and got caught behind fuel cell bus was like having a shower at 30 miles an hour.. Can we have more of these on the road please.

[parkingbays]

On the subject of Westminster and Parking charges I'm none too surprised. What gets me more is that there are pitifully few bike parking bays anyway and given how zealous the wardens are it can be nighmarish trying to find a bay. Talking of which, does anyone know of or think it would be good to have a london-wide list of parking bays for bikes. For those of us who visit clients knowing where the bays are would be useful.

[SeanMacGabhann]

How's about this one PB

Motorcycle parking in London

[HonaloochieB]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> MarmoraBoy?

> MarmoraJr?

> MarmoraLad?

Marmite?

[PeckhamRose]

Also there is a booklet Piaggio sponsored with all the bike parks listed but I am not sure where you can get them from now. A new site which also lists them (but asks for us all to help them update it for the benefit of all of us bikers) is www.scoopark.co.uk

It's a different one to the one mentioned by SMcG.

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Parking wardens very quiet in August when this new scheme was introduced.. Just popped out for lunch and to look at the nice ladies in selfridges and 5 bikes have tickets on them.. only 15 parked in the bay ouch..