What's going on with the phones at DMC??

[SebsC]

Cora Wrote:

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> Can you confirm which one of these numbers you

> phoned sebsc...

I phoned the NHS England on 0300 311 22 33. Good to hear other people are thinking of complaining too - it's a situation that really can't go on for any longer.

[jennyh]

I will definitely call and complain too. No point in voicing a complaint on here if you can easily tell someone who can also affect change. I think everyone's experiences sounds quite shocking and even if it is a particularly poor situation at the moment it would be good to see some recognition and hopefully improvement.

[Pugwash]

I heard that the Guptas are now millionaires and are only interested in making more money hence their seemingly lack of interests in their patients. They wanted a pharmacy so to that they could market (allegedly) their own pharmaceutical goods (allegedly) and get a profit. They were directors (allegedly) of a company which was based in Beddington Lane near IKEA in Croydon.

A friend of mine developed cancer and she had a terrible time trying to get the GPs to take her symptoms seriously and refer her to hospital where she was eventually diagnosed with a rare form of cancer

[curlykaren]

I moved from DMC about a year and a half ago. Because I have an ongoing medical problem I ordered a copy of my computer notes so I could show my new doctor if needed. Randomly spread through my notes were copies from someone else's file, maybe twenty pages in all of very private information. I contacted PALS who sent someone to my house to collect the papers and they also contacted the other person to let them know. No one from DMC ever contacted me to explain or apologize and a year and a half later my file has still not arrived at the new doctors. Shabby stuff. Unfortunately the new doctors is equally as appalling in handling repeat prescriptions and appointments.

[Callie]

curlykaren Wrote:

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> I moved from DMC about a year and a half ago.

> Because I have an ongoing medical problem I

> ordered a copy of my computer notes so I could

> show my new doctor if needed. Randomly spread

> through my notes were copies from someone else's

> file, maybe twenty pages in all of very private

> information. I contacted PALS who sent someone to

> my house to collect the papers and they also

> contacted the other person to let them know. No

> one from DMC ever contacted me to explain or

> apologize and a year and a half later my file has

> still not arrived at the new doctors. Shabby

> stuff. Unfortunately the new doctors is equally as

> appalling in handling repeat prescriptions and

> appointments.

Did you put in an official complaint about this to their practice manager? That way you would get it sorted.

[Sue]

Pugwash Wrote:

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>

> A friend of mine developed cancer and she had a

> terrible time trying to get the GPs to take her

> symptoms seriously and refer her to hospital where

> she was eventually diagnosed with a rare form of

> cancer

xxxxxx

Whilst that is awful, surely that is nothing to do with the running of the practice.

If she thinks there was negligence, she should make a complaint against the GPs in question, not least to prevent the same thing happening to anybody else.

My daughter has recently been in a similar situation and she lives in Oxford. Unfortunately it could happen anywhere, but it is down to individual doctors and not what practice they work in, surely.

People should insist on a second opinion, which they are fully entitled to do (or change GPs). Sadly my daughter had totally misplaced faith in her GP and refused to believe that he could be giving her poor advice, even with much evidence to the contrary.

[Penguin68]

Whilst that is awful, surely that is nothing to do with the running of the practice.

If this was a DMC GP involved in this sad case, then there may have been pressure on GPs at the practice from the owners not to refer cases to hospital specialists, as this 'uses' primary care budgets - if you are running this strictly as a business you may wish to keep down your costs as much as possible - so avoiding where you can funding hospital examinations.

So, whilst this clinical behaviour may reflect inexperience, or simple error, it may be symptomatic of cost-focused practice management.

[muffins78]

OMG is that true Penguin68 - that they don't refer to hospital because the cost will lie with the GP practice. If that is the case, I'd no idea about it.

[Penguin68]

I cannot say that, in the case quoted, (which I have no confirmation was even a DMC case) that this was definitely true, I was simply suggesting that hospital/ specialist references cost money, that GP pactices (primary care) are the fundholders, and that money not spent on care will be retained by the practice. Hence, if (big IF) the salaried GPs at DMC were being encouraged to be parsiminious with their expenditures, then this might additionally relate to practice management issues rather than being primarily an issue of poor or incompetent diagnosis by the GP in question. So it might (again just theoretically) be a 'running of the practice' issue, as clearly is the understaffing of support people.

[Sue]

I cannot believe that a GP would deliberately not refer somebody to hospital because of keeping down costs.

I know there are publicised cases in some areas where particular very expensive treatment is refused on the grounds of cost, but I cannot believe that somebody would be refused expert investigation and/or diagnosis on the grounds of cost.

I would have thought in the case Pugwash quotes that it was 99% likely that it was poor judgment on the part of the GP/s concerned (or alternatively that the rareness of the symptoms played a part).

My daughter was not diagnosed for months even after being referred to hospital, because she had/has something extremely rare which was not picked up when it should have been.

[hpsaucey]

Sue Wrote:

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> I cannot believe that a GP would deliberately not

> refer somebody to hospital because of keeping down

> costs.

>

> I know there are publicised cases in some areas

> where particular very expensive treatment is

> refused on the grounds of cost, but I cannot

> believe that somebody would be refused expert

> investigation and/or diagnosis on the grounds of

> cost.

>

> I would have thought in the case Pugwash quotes

> that it was 99% likely that it was poor judgment

> on the part of the GP/s concerned (or

> alternatively that the rareness of the symptoms

> played a part).

>

> My daughter was not diagnosed for months even

> after being referred to hospital, because she

> had/has something extremely rare which was not

> picked up when it should have been.

Um - I can sadly. Can't prove it but suspsect it to be the case. Wasn't a GP, but was a case of a more specialist unit offering a less-suitable service/treatment rather than a more suitable(more expensive) diagnosis for something.

[reeko]

As we have a national health service that we all pay for, I absolutely think GPs should consider cost when referring people for testing, otherwise everyone with a stomach ache could demand an MRI and millions of pounds would go down the drain. If we had a system where the cost was borne by the patient or insurers, then by all means test away, but we have a national health service, where we need to spend money wisely. That means all clinicians needing to be aware of the financial implications of their decisions. Obviously cost should not be the primary concern when considering a referral, but it should absolutely be a consideration.

[hpsaucey]

AND - when denying the chance of a diagnosis means that someone has been unable to work for 4 years? That may 'save' the NHS money, but its at the sake of costs elsewhere.... Suspect the system isn't joined up enough and can be a bit like 'robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

reeko Wrote:

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> As we have a national health service that we all

> pay for, I absolutely think GPs should consider

> cost when referring people for testing, otherwise

> everyone with a stomach ache could demand an MRI

> and millions of pounds would go down the drain. If

> we had a system where the cost was borne by the

> patient or insurers, then by all means test away,

> but we have a national health service, where we

> need to spend money wisely. That means all

> clinicians needing to be aware of the financial

> implications of their decisions. Obviously cost

> should not be the primary concern when considering

> a referral, but it should absolutely be a

> consideration.

[Sue]

reeko Wrote:

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Obviously cost

> should not be the primary concern when considering

> a referral, but it should absolutely be a

> consideration.

xxxxxx

I can't imagine anybody would disagree with that .....

The symptoms should be the primary consideration, surely.

ETA: Sorry didn't read your post properly

[Pugwash]

From what I understand from friend that they did 'standard tests' and when they came back negative and her symptoms remained ( we are talking over a number of weeks) she had to plead with them to send her to Kings for more intensive tests. It was Kings who found the cancer

[Sue]

Pugwash Wrote:

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> From what I understand from friend that they did

> 'standard tests' and when they came back negative

> and her symptoms remained ( we are talking over a

> number of weeks) she had to plead with them to

> send her to Kings for more intensive tests. It was

> Kings who found the cancer

xxxxx

Easy to criticise, but with rare conditions doctors often have little knowledge/experience of what to look for and what a particular set of symptoms may indicate.

I'm not defending them, far from it in light of my daughter's experience, but I do understand it.

Good for her for persisting.

[brain_opera]

I can absolutely believe this would happen at DMC, and one of the reasons being you never see the same GP twice, and just from notes, you don't get the full picture.

[Sue]

brain_opera Wrote:

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> I can absolutely believe this would happen at DMC,

> and one of the reasons being you never see the

> same GP twice, and just from notes, you don't get

> the full picture.

xxxxxx

Eh?

You can ask to see whatever GP you want.

If you don't, then you probably won't see the same GP twice .....

[Spyragyra]

You can make a complaint to the Care Quality Commission www.cqc.org.uk who inspect GP surgeries.

[SebsC]

Since making my complaints to NHS England on the above phone number, I have received two phone calls from them. They had spoken to the new Pratice Manager (after waiting over half an hour trying to get through) who is very aware of the current problems with the phones and the appalling waits people are experiencing. NHS England have upgraded it to a Crisis situation due to the lack of staffing at DMC. Apparently a total of 6 members of staff have left meaning they have 1 person left for reception, phones etc. I should be hearing back again today with regards to what is going to be done to improve the situation whilst they are finding full time staff again.

[hpsaucey]

So - 6 staff leaving - doesn't sound like a happy place to work! Do they every audit these places?

[Sue]

SebsC Wrote:

Apparently a total of 6

> members of staff have left meaning they have 1

> person left for reception, phones etc. I should be

> hearing back again today with regards to what is

> going to be done to improve the situation whilst

> they are finding full time staff again.

xxxxxx

I would be interested to know why so many staff members have left simultaneously, and if there is a common reason or if it is just coincidence.

If there is a common reason, and if it is connected with the way the practice is run, I'd like to know what the practice intends to do to ensure that it can recruit and retain competent replacement staff.

Otherwise this situation will just keep repeating itself.

ETA: And surely they can get temps to cover the phones? I realise dealing with callers with medical issues is not like being in a call centre, but surely anything would be better than nothing, even if they have to take messages and get somebody else to call a person back?

Surely anybody can get to grips with an appointment system so that at least callers could make appointments?

[hpsaucey]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SebsC Wrote:

>

> Apparently a total of 6

> > members of staff have left meaning they have 1

> > person left for reception, phones etc. I should

> be

> > hearing back again today with regards to what

> is

> > going to be done to improve the situation

> whilst

> > they are finding full time staff again.

>

> xxxxxx

>

> I would be interested to know why so many staff

> members have left simultaneously, and if there is

> a common reason or if it is just coincidence.

>

> If there is a common reason, and if it is

> connected with the way the practice is run, I'd

> like to know what the practice intends to do to

> ensure that it can recruit and retain competent

> replacement staff.

>

> Otherwise this situation will just keep repeating

> itself.

>

> ETA: And surely they can get temps to cover the

> phones? I realise dealing with callers with

> medical issues is not like being in a call centre,

> but surely anything would be better than nothing,

> even if they have to take messages and get

> somebody else to call a person back?

>

> Surely anybody can get to grips with an

> appointment system so that at least callers could

> make appointments?

Agreed - sounds like a bit of a fob off!

[Cora]

Well done Sebsc.....but DMC shouldn't use the staff leaving as the main issue or smoke screen - this was a problem before they left and has been going on for months if not years.

[Monkey]

I agree Cora. They served me the same excuse last year.