Man knocking on door at 1am asking for money

[LondonMix]

That's a fine sentiment and one I largely agree with.

However, there is a big difference between being grateful you don't have mental health issues and you aren't addicted to drugs (we should all be grateful for that if that's the case) and saying you are lucky you are white and middle class and therefore are less likely to behave like the people being discussed on this thread some who may be suffering from various afflictions and others who are con artists.

It was Eberg who said that not you but you took up the point.

[charlesfare]

Like I said, it's a difficult topic to approach.

[LondonMix]

Not really

http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-likely-to-abuse-drugs-than-blacks/

The perception that being white in anyway provides some sort of protection against the ailments described above is misguided. Race has nothing to do with it.

[charlesfare]

I never said anything about race.

[SLad]

Well said, charlesfare. And this thread really doesn't need to turn into an argument over race. People of all races and end up very desperate, very ill and very alone, and all of equally deserving of our care and compassion. We are all VERY lucky not to be in that state.

"I have run in to her, several times over the course of several years. I never once said you should give her money, I never have because it's clear that she's someone with a lot of mental health issues and possibly a drug addiction.

I'm just saying that a) she's clearly someone who is in a really awful and desperate situation b) that there's a difference between being someone that's clearly in desperate need of the kind of help that goes far beyond just money and a greedy con artist and c) we should count ourselves fortunate that we're not in her shoes."

[LondonMix]

Before anyone else jumps in, please read the thread. The person I was originally responding- egber- brought race in to it not me. I was saying that bringing race into it was inappropriate and misguided as well as condescending.

So it seems we all agree about that now...

[PokerTime]

Whilst mental health issues and addiction do not descrminate accross class or any other boundaries, what can be said is that resources for help and support will depend on where you are on those scales. As anyone who has had to depend on NHS funded services will know, mental health resources are woefully underfunded and as a result a lot of people at the bottom of the socio-economic pile will never get anything like the level of treatment and support they really need. That is I think what charles was really saying about his luck of birth.

[charlesfare]

Got it in one PT.

[LondonMix]

Pokertime who would possibly disagree with that. I have already confirmed I agree with that sentiment entirely. What I disagreed with was:

1. Egberg's comment on race which has nothing to do with any of this and should never have been made

2. The characterization of the various people on this thread as being pitiable and purely victims of circumstance. While some of the individuals described may or may not be mentally ill, the scam described by the OP is not the reserve of those suffering from mental health issues! Some are simply con artists and con artists are a type sociopath (rich or poor).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-World-Psychopaths/dp/1572304510

People that beg or even steal are very different to con artsits who have a very specific personality disorder that allows them to manipulate people in a very personal manner.

Again, below is the quote I took exception to that Charles initially was trying to defend...

I'm glad that I don't feel that I have to survive

> by lying, but like a few others Sue I benefit from

> an event of pure luck.

> I'm a white, middle class man born into an

> educated white middle class family. Things are

> stacked in my favour. I'm very lucky indeed.

I still think bringing race and class into a thread largely about con artists suggests a warped view of the working class / non white population.

[charlesfare]

I dunno, knocking on doors and begging for money is hardly Ocean's 11 or Enron is it? I'm not attempting to absolve anyone of anything or make excuses for other people. I'd say that understanding the aspects of society (like race and class) that lead to people do the things mentioned in this thread goes a long way towards to preventing it. It's a bit of a limited outlook to play it all down to being a sociopath. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree!

[PokerTime]

I understand what you are trying to say LM but I have to agree with Charles. There's a world of difference between someone running a multi million ponzi sheme and someone so deperately poor (for whatever reason) reduced to begging (in whatever form). There's tons of data to support the extra stresses placed on the disadvataged, and other ethnic groups are disporportiantely represented across the socio-economic spectrum as you know. The reasons for that are complex of course but it's perfectly fine to point that out.

Charles was simply comenting on comfort. Privilege does mean a less likelihood of many things, just as disadvatage doesn't always mean more likelihood for many who are disadvantaged.

Debates on this sort of thing are always relative anyway. I remember that great sketch between Bird and Fortune about one having no money and the other thinking that meant he was down to his last million. Many people just aren't able to comprehend what having no money really means anymore. What it feels like to not eat properly (and the physiological and mental damage that does) and to not eat at all for a few days at a time. What it feels like to no be able to put gas in the meter (and therefore have no hot water)etc. We can't know what drives people to beg for pennies. Sure some of them will be con artists, but others won't.

[Carbonara]

I was approached by a 'breast feeding' scammer. She actually squirted milk at me.

That was in S Lambeth Rd.

A thin light skinned black woman.

Was it the same person?

[LondonMix]

PokerTime, I don?t think that people are reduced to scamming because of poverty. That?s where we differ fundamentally. Begging of course (as I've stated a few times) is different.

[Cyclemonkey]

"money for the meter" scammers are easily dealt with. If it is between 6pm and 6am their electricty meter will not go off -the vast majoirty have "non disconnect" periods at night.

If you are genuinely worried offer to help them phone their energy company for a "wind on" rather than giving them the cash.

I last had a electricity meter scammer when i lived in Camberwell, the story was her husband was out and she needed ?10 for the meter as her son was on a dialysis machine. As we were very near to Kings College hospital i offered to go with her to the hospital where they could help her son. Unsurprisingly this was declined.