Kitchen side return extension and keeping good relations with the neighbours...

[supergolden88]

Apologies for asking this on Family forum but feel it's only bit of EDF I know some folk on!

Our neighbours did their kitchen a few years ago (4-5 can't quite remember) and they extended sideways - we signed a party wall agreement with them. We now would like to extend sideways ourselves - using the shared wall as agreed all those years ago.

Our neighbour mentioned he wanted us to contribute towards the cost of the wall he put up since we will now be using it. Does anyone know if this is standard practice? We signed the agreement partly to keep good relations with the neighbours and partly with a view to perhaps extending ourselves and to be honest we would probably not be doing it were the wall not already built.

any replies much appreciated!!

thanks

Lucy

[SE22mum]

Was this written into the original agreement? I have no idea if it is normal practice, but a few calls around to party wall surveyors could shed some light. I suppose it depends a bit on how much they are asking for, and if they take off the period of time already used etc.

I would get some legal advice though. In my experience party walls can cause a good deal of mistrust between neighbours.....

[supergolden88]

I don't think any money clause was written into the agreement - just the fact that it was a shared wall which could potentially be actually 'shared' if we build up to it.

My project manager has not come across it before. I don't want to create animosity between us already before the project even starts (not due to start till end of summer - still in planning permission stage) but at same time it sounds odd. It's ok if it's a few hundreds but if we are talking thousands well then...

[Scribble]

It does sound very odd, though checking things out properly legally sounds like a very good idea. Having been on both sides of the building / being built upon divide, I would have thought that your getting to use this wall now is fair compensation for the noise and inconvenience you would have experienced when they were doing their work. If I was your neighbour, it wouldn't occur to me to ask for this!

[Convex]

i agree scribble but they are about to get their fair share of inconvenience in return ;-)

good luck sg, sounds really exciting

[fl0wer]

Chunky neighbour!

You're polite and naturally averse to having a falling-out.

This kind of near-blackmail appeals to certain people. Having once been a victim of it I would say: don't just give in at this point, but get ready to make a compromise.

OK so how do you progress?

Before it gets to any legal stage

(costs ??? and *polite cough* solicitors relish a nice lucrative dispute rather than promoting harmony)....

Ask your builder what he would charge for all the new wall you'd need there if starting from scratch?

What can you afford right now?

Find out, preferably over a glass of wine, what amount of money is the neighbour looking for?

Is there a reasonable amount you can now agree upon?

[mooncake]

They have a right to charge you for use of the wall according to the info available on party walls - although I think most neighbours would waive this if they previously asked you to endure the noise and disturbance of their works! Bit more understandable if ownership of properties has since changed hands.

https://www.gov.uk/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance

Hope that helps.

[LondonMix]

Its totally normal that if you use the wall, you pay for half the costs of building it. It is completely natural that you should pay your share towards to cost of creating a wall that will now form part of your house. While you may have endured the noise the first time around, they will endure it now.

I don't see how the noise argument comes into since she is now doing her own side return extension...

[supergolden88]

I am not saying I will not pay some contribution towards the wall. Just wondering if anyone has been through it and how much would be reasonable to ask. After all if we had contested this wall years ago they would not have been able to build it - we have lost most of the natural light and endured a lot of noise - not during building but from the endless parties and gatherings since. With 5 skylights I can frequently hear the conversations as if I was in the room.

Anyway....

[LondonMix]

I've been through this with neighbours and 50% of the costs to build it as quoted by a reputable builder is standard practice. It's not much money-- depending on the size of the wall your share will be at most a couple of grand.

We agreed to a wall on the boundary line as we knew we wanted to do our own extension eventually (as it sounds like you did). Altruism didn't really come into it. Also, we couldn't have blocked our neighbour's extension if we didn't consent to the party-wall notification. It would have simply required a surveyor to determine access rights, hours of work etc which is a totally unncessary expense if you can agree these points amongst yourselves as decent neighbours. Since what our neighbours did was within their PD rights, at most we could have forced them to build the wall 6 inches over on their side and then we would never have the right to use it.

Noisy / party-mad neigbours is a totally different can of worms and really doesn't have anything to do with sharing the costs of constructing a wall. If they really are that inconsiderate though I feel for you as that's terrible.

[supergolden88]

I will find out the cost. Thanks for your reply. I don't think my neighbours are inconsiderate BTW I think given the right conditions in the summer the noise just carries... Just wondering what the cost was when they build it - it won't be the same now as it was some time ago.

Did you sign anything or go through any legalities?

[LondonMix]

Yes, we incorporated the idea in our party wall notice from the begining so it would be clear. The costs were also the costs when they did it, not what it cost when we did it. If you haven't already agreed it in writing, you probably legally don't have to pay anything but I just wanted you to know that your neighbours aren't asking for something totally crazy. When you actually share the party-wall for the side extension its fairly normal. I hope that helps.

[supergolden88]

I wish I knew about this years ago.... but I think it would be for the best to come to a fair agreement. I will take some baked goods over and just ask what they paid!

[budur]

We are on the other side of the fence: our neighbours asked if they can use our wall (built on our side as at the time they didn't want it on the boundary). We asked our builder how much just that wall would have cost, neighbours asked theirs, the difference I think was 100 pounds, so we agreed in the middle between their quote and ours. Got the check and signed all paperwork, was all straightforward. Good luck.

[RichJ]

I wonder if the split should be 50-50 though? After all, the neighbours have had the benefit of the wall for 4-5 years longer than the OP. Something like 60-40 or 55-45 feels more fair although there is no science behind these numbers! Good luck - not at all easy doing these types of negotiations with neighbours.

[LondonMix]

These structures can last hundreds of years. Having used the wall for a few years more should impact that cost sharing at all in my opinion.

[reren]

Reckon definitely worth doing it face to face - people find it harder to be greedy in person! But go with an idea of what you think is reasonable in mind - then you can nicely but firmly come to an agreement. Awkward and i think cheeky of this neighbour! But putting some money his way probably worth it to keep relations sweet.