Rolf Noooooooooooooo!

[Mick Mac]

And the public schools themselves are presumably potentially exposed, perhaps if they are shown to have failed to take proper steps to prevent abuse happening under their own roof?

[*Bob*]

I expect pastoral care at public schools today is a world away from what it used to be decades ago. Not that this should be a surprise: so are so many other aspects of society and its attitudes to so many things.

Nearly half a century has passed since, eg, the '70s, but for some reason it still seems to be regarded as 'not long ago' - despite in reality having more in common with the era of WW2 than it does with the country we live in now.

[the-e-dealer]

I wouldn't be so sure from what I hear about the Dulwich Public Schools some of them don't even have an anti bullying Policy.

[PokerTime]

Well done First Mate. Not only have you used homophobic language, but you also have managed to compare peadophilia to homosexualtiy - also equally offensive btw.

Yes, peadophiles can be found in jobs/ roles that give them easy access to children, which can include schools, but it has nothing to do with homosexuality. Peadophiles abuse both girls and boys. Perhaps if I rephrase your comment to say 'hetero-erotic, straight culture' you might just understand how offensive and stupid your comment is.

I really do wish some people would think before posting.

[El Pibe]

'fag' is something different in public schools. somewhere between batman, slave and bullying target, which in some cases can involve sexual abuse.

The connection is perfectly valid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging

[*Bob*]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wouldn't be so sure from what I hear about the

> Dulwich Public Schools some of them don't even

> have an anti bullying Policy.

A simple googling reveals this not to be the case.

[Jeremy]

I think we were all waiting for someone for someone to post something like that...

[the-e-dealer]

Maybe ofsted have done their job in the last 12 months. Hope so because the incidents I know about were quite worrying.

[Otta]

I have also heard about a public school in dulwich reacting very poorly to reports of bullying a few years ago. Purely anecdotal mind.

Anyway...

PokerTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> you also have managed to compare peadophilia to homosexualtiy>

Nothing to say on this potential spat, but this did remind me of a piece on Radio 4 the other day talking about this unbelievable situation in the 1970s (this article is from Feb this year)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378

The radio thing I heard actually played a snippet from a radio interview with a guy saying "a good caring paedophile can help nurture these feelings in a child", like they were kind life guides or something.

Couldn't believe what I was hearing.

[Mick Mac]

PokerTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Yes, peadophiles can be found in jobs/ roles that

> give them easy access to children, which can

> include schools,

I'm not sure I was talking about abuse by the people in jobs, I was thinking about pupil to pupil abuse and what if anything was done by the schools in the way of protection of the children in their care.

[PokerTime]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'fag' is something different in public schools.

> somewhere between batman, slave and bullying

> target, which in some cases can involve sexual

> abuse.

>

> The connection is perfectly valid.

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging

Except it was proceeded by 'homoerotic', which makes it clear what the intent was.

I just don't think it's appropriate in a discussion about something as serious as sexual child abuse to be stooping to jibes about public schools and homoerotic inunendo. Public schools are no more responsible for creating peadophiles than anywhere else. First Mate's comment was frivilous at best.

[Otta]

"Public schools are no more responsible for creating peadophiles than anywhere else"

You may have a point about the language used, but I have no idea how you can make this claim with any kind of conviction other than "what you reckon".

[PokerTime]

Gosh Otta. That is shocking but I think typifies just why peadophilia wasn't taken as seriously then as it is now.

Mac, I am in agreement about the problems and nature of pupil to pupil abuse. I don't know enough about that to have any really informed view. Friends that I have that are teachers though, do tell me that they are very limited in how they can deal with those kinds of issues, and I guess the problems would be the same in a public school.

Croosed post with Otta; You are right given that number of unknown peadophiles and related crimes. But there is accurate information available relating to those convicted. It's quite a highly researched area over the past two decades and background is measured as part of that research.

[Jeremy]

'Homoerotic' mentioned because fagging, as I understand it, was prevalent in boys schools. It is arguably relevant to the topic because it involved older pupils, young men really, abusing their power over younger pupils in a manner which was tolerated - even encouraged - by authority.

PT, why not just admit you misunderstood the post? Nobody would think any less of you.

[Mick Mac]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'Homoerotic' mentioned because fagging, as I

> understand it, was prevalent in boys schools. It

> is arguably relevant to the topic because it

> involved older pupils, young men really, abusing

> their power over younger pupils in a manner which

> was tolerated - even encouraged - by authority.

>

Egggsactly .

[the-e-dealer]

Never try and bum a fag in America!

[PokerTime]

I stand by my post Jeremy. The comment was prompted by a probe into MPs linked to peadophilia. First mate is making a link between peadophilia and public school behaviour which he also describes as being homoerotic (last time I checked the system of young boys being servants to peers in public schools was about bullying, servitude and power, not some homoerotic desire). That is his mistake, not mine.

[*Bob*]

But you got the fagging bit wrong, yeah?

[El Pibe]

Thinking about it the fag system is practically an archetypal pederastic one, as done by the ancient greeks.

Using homoerotic means he was (or may have been, i'm sure he can speak for himself) specifically talking about the fag system where a sexual and or emotional involvement was the norm (and they most certainly existed) as opposed to maybe one of physical abuse or the pseudo militaristic batman/personal aide flavour of the system.

Anyway, what Jeremy said, it wouldn't be the first time you were unaware of the synonymous nature of a word that can be used as a homophobic term.

[El Pibe]

xpost, as usual people saying things more succinctly than i do!!!!

[steveo]

"Eton was a hotbed of buggery."

-Derek Raymond

[Help-Ma-Boab]

The Fairytale of New York anyone?

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But you got the fagging bit wrong, yeah?

[PokerTime]

You've lost me El Pibe I'm afraid.

What do greeks, public school bullies, homosexuals etc have to do with peadophiles when a sensible debate thus far has already identified the wide spectrum of child sexual abuse (and the difficulties in identifying why some adults behave in such a way) - a good number of the victims are female btw in case anyone hadn't noticed.

It's as simple as this. Some adults pursue a sexual desire to abuse children. They often seek jobs where they can gain access to children, but not always. Peadophiles come from all backgrounds, in all shapes and forms. The vast majority of people who share those backgrounds do not turn out that way. So to blame any kind of school system, or hospital etc as the reason why any adult would behave like that is nonsense.

[the-e-dealer]

Older boys abusing younger boys as part of a school system may have a few parallels.

[PokerTime]

It may, but it's a tenuous link. I'm more inclined to think that the impact of that is the kind of ruthless lack of compassion that we see in MPs, business leaders etc that have gone through that system. I think that's what it designed for historically. Being able to engage in war, power, government etc without worrying too much about social impacts. But that's a different debate. It's still not a healthy environment for young people if we want to see a society of well adjusted young adults.

Edited to add; when research looks into the wide variety of backgrounds and upbringing, it's a real challenge to find any set of common factors. That's true even through psychology. And as LadyD posted earlier, there's a whole new area of research into women that abuse children. We are all familiar with Myra Hindley and Rosemary West, but most abuse is low key, subtle and hidden, and therefore goes undisclosed. Even when people has strong and well founded suspicions about people in their own communities, it is extremely hard to find evidence unless a victim comes forward.