The Honor Oak - NOT A GASTRO PUB!!

[Jeremy]

I'm not so convinced the term is dated, just over-used. Some people (well one person) claim that almost every pub in ED is now a gastro-pub, but in reality there's only one.

[Mick Mac]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> I thought a gastro pub was supposed to be a term

> that meant good food. Was it the pub bit he took

> offense to?

"Having been completely refurbished in 2014, the all new Honor Oak features an open plan dining room, designer bar area, function room, private dining rooms, al fresco dining terrace, beer garden and even a toddler's play area."

Its not a pub - its a "designer bar"

I have realised I watched the 2003 UEFA Cup Final in there when it was St Germains - a Celtic supporters club. Bit of a dive back then.

[Otta]

Oh my God, we're talking St Germains? That really was a dive.

[El Pibe]

Is it?!?! oh christ, cold sweats at the memory!!

[maxxi]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I'm not so convinced the term is dated, just

> over-used. Some people (well one person) claim

> that almost every pub in ED is now a gastro-pub,

> but in reality there's only one.

Franklins?

Palmerston?

Patch?

[Seabag]

MrBen Wrote:

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> I agree with Otta. As a term its as wed to early

> 2000's as "e-commerce".But in the absence of

> anyone coming up with a better word which

> describes it its still widely used.

>

> This is a bit radical, but what about "Pub &

> Restaurant"?

>

> :-)

1990's The Eagle in Farrindon had the term "gastro pub" attached to it first, and quite rightly so

It's "proper restaurant in a pub" ethos changed the London restaurant scene. (ha-a British Dining concept almost) Along with The French House in Soho and St John's in Clerkenwell. All these helped deconstruct food from the "faine dining" (which I loathe) offer, which prevailed. They led a revolution that shows little sign of stopping. Ingredients led restaurants, served in a more relaxed environment (often a pub), sometimes well off the beaten path

David Eyre, of Eyre brothers has inspired many others to open this kind of establishment. There's a map somewhere, showing all the places people have opened after working for/with The Eagle. There's literally dozens. So thank him/or berate him for what he started

On a final note, the term "gasto lounge" was also bandied around at the time

I think we got of lightly with Gastro Pub

[Jeremy]

maxxi Wrote:

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> Franklins?

Restaurant with a bar in my book. The website is www.franklinsrestaurant.com. It doesn't feel like a pub.

Not been to the Patch. But you're probably right.

[Mick Mac]

I think gastro pub would imply that the focus of the business is more on food than the bar - I'd say that's true for Franklins

Also it implies good quality food, as the term was originally to set a venue apart from just "a pub that did food"

I agree - the Eagle was the first time I heard the term being applied

[El Pibe]

I dunno, franklins is a restaurant for me, though the front bit could qualify i don't think that's the main point of the business as it's really tiny!!

I don't know about the patch, sounds liek a gastro to me, but Palmerston for sure.

Crooked Well?

[Seabag]

Franklin's, if it were a Gastro Pub, would be called The Victory, which is the name of the old pub it occupies. It doesn't allude to being a gastro Pub, it's most deffo a Restaurant, with a bar. A jolly good restaurant it is too.

Whereas The Palmerston is a Gastro Pub, with Dining room/s. Much like The Cow in Westbourne Park Road

I bow to The Eagle. Oh, if only The Honor Oak had one 'nth of the quality that place exudes. It's another ClockHousery refurbed, book online, off the beat staffed, meh of a faux-vintage gastrowannabe place

Sorry, but I'm sticking with my gut instinct here and others experience thus far

[????]

The Engineer in Primrose Hill was not far behind teh Eagle

[El Pibe]

It's got a proper pubby bit the engineer though, an old work haunt of mine that one.

[BrandNewGuy]

Great pub ? used to get pissed in there on a Friday afternoon with the editor of "Take A Break". The Anchor and Hope on The Cut was fairly early too?

[????]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> It's got a proper pubby bit the engineer though,

> an old work haunt of mine that one.

Why the 'though'? I think you need a proper pubby bit to qualify as a gastropub, hence I agree that Franklins isn't really a pub at all. All subjective of course.

[Mick Mac]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I dunno, franklins is a restaurant for me, though

> the front bit could qualify i don't think that's

> the main point of the business as it's really

> tiny!!

>

That's what I said isn't it - the focus is more on the food than the bar

[Jeremy]

You seemed to be saying it was a gastro pub! But I'd say it isn't a pub at all. Just a restaurant.

[El Pibe]

I don't suppose there's an exact definition, the wikipedia entry is incredibly ambiguous.

I tend to think of it as a pub that does good food as it's primary purpose, and depending on implementation, the pub element is really just a setting rather than an a cultural lifeblood to which it remains committed.

For me the engineer is a proper pub that has a proper foodie bit in another room.

How long is piece of string (or a chinaman as my casually racist father liked to say) I guess, but I'm obviously in the negative bit regards the aspirational use of the term.

[Otta]

My mate (who has since moved away) used to take his paper to Franklins for a couple of Saturday lunchtime pints (this was during the death rattle of the CPT). I joined him a couple of times, but never really felt comfortable drinking in there. It very much feels like a bar where you have a quick drink whilst waiting to be seated for your meal.

[Jeremy]

The Palmerston and Camberwell Arms are undenibaly gastropubs - pubs which have had a dining room and kitchen fitted, now more known for their food, but you can still go in for a pint, and they carry a full selection of draft beers.

Franklins doesn't really fall into that category, the bar area is very small and doesn't really "feel" like a pub.

Conversely places like The Bishop or Great Exhibition are not gastro pubs. You cannot book tables, there is no separate dining room, and the food is generic.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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> My mate (who has since moved away) used to take

> his paper to Franklins for a couple of Saturday

> lunchtime pints (this was during the death rattle

> of the CPT). I joined him a couple of times, but

> never really felt comfortable drinking in there.

> It very much feels like a bar where you have a

> quick drink whilst waiting to be seated for your

> meal.

Ok its "Gastro bar". Settled.

[????]

your Irish Mick - you tend to roll up bar/pub as the same type of establishment, when they aren't

[DulwichFox]

I tend to think that a Gastro Pub is a Pub that sells food but does not have a specific dining area.

Like The Bishop, The Great Exhibition , The EDT, The Plough.

Franklins has a defined dining area and is not really a pub.

Although people do pop in for a drink but there is limited space.

The Palmerston is a Restaurant as there is no real seating area to have a drink.

Standing at the bar seems to be the only option. So not a Gastro pub.

The Patch has both a bar and a dedicated Restaurant area so not really a Gastro Pub.

Hope that helps. :)

Foxy

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

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> your Irish Mick - you tend to roll up bar/pub as

> the same type of establishment, when they aren't

And I thought I was entering into a subtle differentiation.

[maxxi]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > your Irish Mick - you tend to roll up bar/pub

> as

> > the same type of establishment, when they

> aren't

>

> And I thought I was entering into a subtle

> differentiation.

Otherwise known as The Snug.

Reminds me of a big old pub near where I grew up that had five different entrances to: a bar, a lounge, a snug, a smoke room and an off-sales.

[titch juicy]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> I don't suppose there's an exact definition, the

> wikipedia entry is incredibly ambiguous.

>

> I tend to think of it as a pub that does good food

> as it's primary purpose, and depending on

> implementation, the pub element is really just a

> setting rather than an a cultural lifeblood to

> which it remains committed.

>

> For me the engineer is a proper pub that has a

> proper foodie bit in another room.

>

> How long is piece of string (or a chinaman as my

> casually racist father liked to say) I guess, but

> I'm obviously in the negative bit regards the

> aspirational use of the term.

How long is a piece of chinaman?