Newbuilds in gardens - Hindmans Road

[kate h]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are about this...

We've just had a letter through the door from Southwark about a proposal for a two-storey new-build at the bottom of a garden on Hindmans Rd. There's obviously a need for new housing, but how do people feel about the idea of gardens themselves being developed / built on?

Would be great to know thoughts.

Thanks.

[swquiz]

It's a shame to lose a garden, but if the owners and immediate neighbours don't mind losing a bit of space/privacy then so be it.

I would, however, have questions about drainage. Green spaces are crucial to provide natural drainage (and therefore prevent flooding either locally or 'downhill'). How will the loss of drainage be mitigated in a sustainable way?

[KidKruger]

people pave their gardens and there's no regulation I know of to prohibit that, so a new build as far as run-off goes may be comparable. New builds in gardens though, I think it's a plague and I'm not convinced everyone really affected actually gets a say - usually only immediately adjacent properties.

A property I own, the guy next door applied for permission for a triple garage, which was granted. As he built it, I wondered why the exterior walls were reclaimed red brick with a block built internal wall and insulation in between, then I noticed large window holes and proper domestic drainage being incoporated. I advised the local council who said there was no breach as intended use is triple garage. Over time he bricked the windows up, I couldn't see why he'd put all that effort and cost into the detail and lintels etc., only to close the openings.

Once it was completed he applied for permission to turn the 'triple garage' into a 2-bed bungalow on it's own land.

In a week they could have switched the place into a bungalow as most of the work had been already done !

A bit of research showed this builder's development-by-stealth history over the years.

[kate h]

Kidkruger - that 'development by stealth' story is pretty shocking. Was it in East Dulwich or somewhere else?

I know what you mean about other people not getting much of a say. In terms of the Hindmans Rd. development, immediate neighbours etc have had letters, but it seems a bit hit and miss as to who's had them (ie some people who will be very affected haven't received one....). Our neighbours on Tyrrell Rd and Hindmans Rd are pretty hacked off about the whole thing - as are we...As one of our neighbours pointed out - it's a bad precedent. If Southwark grant permission for a newbuild on a garden this time round, then what's to stop others doing the same? (Particularly given house prices etc, and potential profit margins...)

The developers who are trying to get the proposal through (think they're pretty canny - they've got quite a few other ED projects on the go at the moment, including the house on Hindmans rd itself which they're turning into a three bedroom flat...) are arguing that there have been lots of precedents which justify building in a garden. They're citing the police station project on Crystal Palace Rd, and also the newbuild behind William Hill, but it's all quite clever / disingenuous because neither of those spaces were actual gardens....although from the way it's presented in the document you'd think they were...

We moved to ED from Brixton / Stockwell borders about six years ago and one of the main appeals (apart from the fact that back then it was cheaper...) was the green spaces, and slightly quieter, calmer feel of the place....

Thanks for the responses. If anyone wants any more info, let me know.

[Mustard]

What is the access to the proposed newbuilds?

[kate h]

A path down the side of the existing house on Hindmans Rd....

[Mustard]

A big path? Think there were some back garden type newbuilds on Landells Road a few years ago, only saw them online.

[kate h]

Looks like it will be quite big. They're proposing separating the front bit of the Hindmans Rd. house into two sections, and the path for the new development will go off to the left and be lit up.

Know the one you mean on Landells Road. The developers for the Hindmans rd. one talk about it in terms of another 'precedent.' Need to look into it but I have a feeling the Landells Rd one was built on an old garage site and there was already good access...(rather than on a garden without pre-existing access!!)

[Mustard]

Did you meant the newly built Landells Road houses? I meant the ones built a few years ago.

[kate h]

Think I'm thinking about the Grand Designs Landells Rd houses built a couple of years ago...just had a look online and they were built on an old joinery business and the guy who built them ended up living in one of them for a while...were those the ones you were thinking about Mustard?

[EDmummy]

The Landells build a few years ago was on the site if an old workshop with own access. The only other ones I can think of locally (Heber, LL end and the street that runs alongside Franklins all have what would have been coachmans access.

[Mustard]

kate h Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Think I'm thinking about the Grand Designs

> Landells Rd houses built a couple of years

> ago...just had a look online and they were built

> on an old joinery business and the guy who built

> them ended up living in one of them for a

> while...were those the ones you were thinking

> about Mustard?

Yes, those are the ones.

[kate h]

Thanks EDMummy - that's really helpful.

[lounge lizard]

Classic NIMBY's, is your head so far buried in the sand that you have avoided noticing that London has a chronic housing shortage. Oh yes, you did notice, you just don't want them built near you

[intexasatthe moment]

But it's no good cramming housing into every available inch and creating substandard squashed housing .

And this particular planning application looks very squashed with the access running immediately across several windows in the neighbours house .

Some garden plots might be suitable but this doesn't look like one .

And the OP was only asking for thoughts ,no mention of not wanting it .

[KidKruger]

lounge lizard - there's a massive difference between not wanting the house across the road converted to flats and developers building houses in back gardens.

You could argue it's old-fashioned to resist the latter, but hardly NIMBY territory.

2/10

[EDmummy]

Calm down dear Lounge Lizard. Speculative building companies building a house in a garden in ED is certainly not going to contribute to the housing problem in London unless it's social housing or seriously below the current market rate in the area. OP has raised a serious point about precedence.

lounge lizard Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Classic NIMBY's, is your head so far buried in the

> sand that you have avoided noticing that London

> has a chronic housing shortage. Oh yes, you did

> notice, you just don't want them built near you

[nxjen]

Have sent a pm about another application for a house proposed to be built in a garden that got refused but looking at the plans for this one in Hindman's Road:

1) Does the applicant own the whole pathway to the proposed new build or is it jointly owned with the next door neighbour.

2) Is the pathway wide enough for emergency vehicles to gain access?

[EDmummy]

Might be useful to also look at the house in the garden of a house very near this one in (I think) Tyrell Rd - opp the small industrial estate. Not sure an emergency vehicle can get down that side return but this may pre-date safety requirements. There are a number of local councils in London rejecting back garden builds in West London might be useful to OP to have a look at these rejected application to look at the grounds for rejection. I'm keenly watching this thread as I have a suspicion that a garden build might be applied for over my own back fence (also Hindmans Rd but half way up the other end of the street).

[edhistory]

Hindmans Road is a flood risk street.

http://watermaps.environment-agency.gov.uk/wiyby/wiyby.aspx?topic=ufmfsw#x=533853&y=175031&scale=11

Does the developer know?

John K

[kate h]

Nxjen - re. the pathway: the developers own the house on Hindmans, so would own the pathway I'd imagine. They're turning the pathway into a covered, well lit 'canopy', so presumably not great for fire engines, but they did say something in their plans about putting a fire hydrant in. They're also developing another house on Hindmans on the other side of the street at the mo.

EDMummy - thanks for tip about West London councils and garden building. I'll definitely look into that. And thanks to everyone who's PMd me. Really helpful advice.

I totally get the urgent need for more housing, but surely it's about going about it in a sensitive, thoughtful way....?

[kate h]

And John - would the flood risk affect a two-storey build? Quite a few people have mentioned drainage issues...

[pinecone]

> But it's no good cramming housing into every available inch and creating substandard squashed housing.

agree. ghettoisation.

[first mate]

Ditto.

[Pugwash]

Which end of Hindmans is it - as I am trying to visualise where it could be? Is it the side backing onto Barry Road?