What's happening to old ED police station?

[Otta]

Car drivers in "oh my God we couldn't possibly use public transport" shocker.

I work (in East London) with a woman who lives around the corner from me. I do the 45 minute journey on public transport, she takes over am hour to drive because she doesn't like busy trains.

But at least she's honest about it and doesn't make up BS excuses to justify it.

[Penguin68]

I think, Otta, you are being a little unfair - how many books for marking do you take with you to and fro when you use public transport? How much material do you prepare at home to bring in to your workplace? Of course, teachers could do all 'their' work at school, although they will tend not to have offices, and the teacher's desk in a class room is often not the ideal workplace - they may also have school-age children (or elderly parents) who they wish to see/ care for - teachers not infrequently teach in order to be able to have a work-life balance.

[Otta]

Oh come on, how many people on the tube / buses are wheeling cases behind them which could easily fit a load of excersise books in. My missus was a teacher, and I work with teachers every day, I'm reasonably clued up about how hard they work and how much stuff they have to take to and from work.

I still have absolutely zero sympathy with them saying they can't use public transport. If they want to drive that's fine, that's their choice. Just don't try to justify it with nonsense excuses.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Does any primary school in the area have designated parking? I would think it ridiculous for the school to use part of the site to provide a car park.

The constant calls for more parking provision as a response to too many cars always astounds me. I never understand why Southwark insist on new flats providing off street parking. You build car parks and more people will drive. That's what happens. Who wants more cars, more congestion? If people have to park a couple of streets away and walk a couple of minutes, then that's what they'll have to do - or else they'll find an alternative mode of transport.

[intexasatthe moment]

Of course you're right rahrah .

i'm just in awe of the work teachers do . I don't think Curmudgeon, or me on their behalf, are making bloody silly excuses . Just explaining the way it is .

Bloody hard physical work teaching little ones . If it were me ,my choice would be to drive .

[James Barber]

Perhaps my friend is a weird exception. He's a primary school teacher and cycles over Crystal Palace every day and a numkbe of miles to/from his school and doesn't have a problem taking books home to mark.

I think Otta has a point about a hardcore of people who just prefer to drive full-stop.

As part of any planning application as parknig survey and transport study will be required for this site.

Last week I ensured this will be taking place and submitted as the planning application. This will be publicly available when available.

Hi first mate,

If I'm the councillor you were suggesting.

If I wanted a CPZ locally around Lordship Lane why would I have helped so many people get white lines back in rather than double yellow lines which would limit local parking capacity?

[BrandNewGuy]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> i'm just in awe of the work teachers do...

> Bloody hard physical work teaching little ones .

Whereas the rest of us slouch around all day, barely able to pick up a pencil ;-)

> If it were me ,my choice would be to drive .

Fine, but that would be your choice. When deciding difficult policy decisions to do with parking, transport, urban lving space etc, your choice doesn't trump those of others. And some decisions might make your choice more difficult to pursue.

[????]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> The 'parking problem' would seem to be associated

> with teaching and other staff needing to access

> the site to work - presumably in general needing

> to park between, say, 7:30 and 16:30 - give or

> take - and the popularity of the school is

> irrelevant to that. The number of parking spaces

> taken up by the garage (4-5 normally) will at

> least in part be now taken by the new

> householders, whenever that comes about.

>

> That end of LL is increasingly popular for

> shopping, eating out (cinema eventually) - the

> school will simply bring additional pressure to

> parking around there during the day in term-time -

> thus impacting the revenues etc. of local

> businesses - many of which there sell relatively

> heavy or bulky items for which public transport or

> bikes are not an ideal solution.

>

> Clearly there are plusses about more primary

> provision locally, but there are also - for those

> without primary age children, and particularly

> living very locally - very many minuses.

Really? You really sure????

I live up that end just off Whatley Road, one block from LL. Parking is rarely an issue during the week ever- and really it's only Saturday that it's 'difficult' - which a school won't effect. I just don't see the 'parking' issue as an issue at all. I think the cinema will have more of an effect in the evening but I'd rather the cinema there too.

[first mate]

James,

re CPZ- we'll see but the notion that the combination of three big new developments in the area will not impact heavily on residents' parking is disingenuous. Others are right, the notion that all will magically take to cycling or less than reliable public transport, is a rather large sticking plaster but one councillors seem prepared to accept without too much thought.

Cycling is a great option for those who are physically fit and who like cycling. On cold dark mornings and evenings, perhaps with torrential rain, it just doesn't seem a realistic, or indeed safe option, for the majority, especially if you are coming in from Kent, laden with books for marking.There are of course hardcore cyclists who will take to their pedals come what may, but for most this is a summer option, not for winter.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Often, when people talk about 'difficulty parking' they're just dropping the silent '...directly outside my house' part. Some peeps are very territorial about parking spaces, which is why it's always quite an emotive subject.

[first mate]

???

Don't Harris do Saturday school?

[first mate]

RRR,

You've stated that a number of time on different threads. My expereince is that it is not code for parking outside ones house but refelcts the ability to park on one of the streets close to one's house. I couldn't care about parking outside my house and never have done but it is increasingly difficult to find a space on one of the roads close by and that is before Harris primary, the Cinema, M&S.

[Otta]

Cycling aside, what's wrong with public transport?

[Earl Aelfheah]

@first Mate - wasn't aware that I had, but it's something I regularly see in my street (peeps running out and moving their cars a couple of spaces to be outside their house), so may have mentioned before. I know some streets generally have problems, but there are a lot of people who get really frustrated when there is no need to. I'm up that end of the lane and as someone else mentioned, it isn't that bad for parking.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Otta Wrote:

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> Cycling aside, what's wrong with public transport?

That depends entirely on the journey you're making.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

I can see M&S having a parking impact.Which is why I spoke against the planning application losing the current car park etc.

I genuinley think the cinema will have most custom in the evenings and weekends. In the evening when almost all the shops that attract customers and staff/owners aren't around should be ok. The weekends could well be an issue but I've yet to see a Southwark CPZ operate only on Saturdays so definately that wont be on the table.

The cinema has to provide a plan it intends to operate by. I've asked to see that plan as I want to help ensure they have things around encouraging customers to not come by car.

If you've any ideas to help with this please do email me.

Primary school. It will have around 30 staff and by the fifth year of operations have an admissions radius of around 500m. So hopefully vast majority, as with Heber School, walk, cycle or scooter to school. I'm sure a few teachers/staff as you've suggested will park on local streets. But even 30% would represent an extra 9 cars in the area. All those staff will also have opportunities to spend money. So it will help in a small way to get a little more cash into local shops during the quiet Mon-fri day time period.

[first mate]

Otta, great when it works, but at the end of a tiring day you don't want to be standing in the rain for the bus that is too full and does not stop or the train that is cancelled. If transport was great it'd all be fine but it isn't and there lies the rub. No good saying if more of us use it it'll get better. Until it improves people will always choose a car if they can.

RRR

Well I do agree with you there, 'tis an unforunate aspect of human nature in some and another reason why increased parking pressure may result in CPZ- those people will ask for it. My view has always been that as long as I could park somewhere along my street or another close by, all was dandy and I thinak there are many who feel the same. However,parking pressures really are changing and can only get worse; if the M&s parking survey was anything to go by they are a farce and cannot be relied on.

[first mate]

James,

I'd imagine to stay afloat the cinema will have to do daytime screenings and I'd imagine a proportion of those attending will come by car, so not only evenings I would think. Yes, M&S plus a wodge of new residents, minus the large car park, but with increased juggernaut deliveries, is going to have quite an impact. I do wonder sometimes how the road surface will hold.

The Harris will be a big school in terms of students attending. Parents tend to like to drop their younger kids off by car for safety and convenience reasons, especially in the winter months, so that'll be a lot of traffic around early morning and late afternoon, not to mention teachers and any servicing/supplies. For reasons I've already stated cannot see the utopian state of cycling/car-free teachers, all wedded to public transport, being a realistic proposition.

Meant to say also that I'm sure Harris will have weekend and evening acticities won't it? M&S will be open all hours and as for the cinema only producing traffic at night, well aside from what I've already said, it is in the evening that residents need to find somewhere to park for the night otherwise they are a bit screwed. For sure the cinema will probably interfere with that on roads close by.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

It's true what First Mate said as I walk to the school ( don't own a car ) but some of the other local parents walk when the weather is nice but then use their cars when it's cold /wet etc as the temptation and convenience is too great . If I could drive I probably would do the same .

Public transport isn't great , I have no choice but to use them and nothing has improved . If I had a family to get back to and using a car would get me home quicker I would use a car . Public transport during peak times is just depressing never mind trying to lug suitcases when it's standing room only .

In an ideal world everyone would work locally removing the need to have to rely on a car .

[Otta]

first mate Wrote:

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> Otta, great when it works, but at the end of a

> tiring day you don't want to be standing in the

> rain for the bus that is too full and does not

> stop or the train that is cancelled. If transport

> was great it'd all be fine but it isn't and there

> lies the rub. No good saying if more of us use it

> it'll get better. Until it improves people will

> always choose a car if they can.

>

And there as you say is the rub of it. People choose to use their cars because they don't want to risk gettong a bit chilly or possibly delayed (like traffic jams don't happen).

I would say that you could get to the bottom of Whateley Road within an hour from most places in and around London.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I don't think there can really be any doubt that new developments will increase the pressure on parking. But what do you want to do? Do we stop development, or build extra parking (which will likely just release latent demand)?

[first mate]

Development does not have to equal packing more into a space, sometimes it does mean that, for instance where there is a necessary choice involving change of use (Harris perhaps) but sometimes, yes, I do think it might be necessary to say a building or patch of land can be updated or refurbished or 'improved' but that it might be imprudent to try to pack much more into that space (M&S plus new residences).

Part of the problem is that planning, despite what we are told, does not seem to be done in a holistic way but is more piecemeal. So on its own merits each of these new developments might seem a good idea but having them all so close together? I'd just like to have a sense of what the long-term vision for the area is? It is only those that sit on the planning committees who have that kind of overview and yet they ask us what solutions for parking we can come up with. My point is, wouldn't someone on planning have been thinking about that some time ago when all these developments were just at the ideas stage?

[James Barber]

Sadly councillors on planning committees are not hat engaged. They hear applications that largely officers decide, unless a councillor has called inthe decision or it clearly has raised a lot of angst among residents. Councillors get an officer report a week in advance.

Applications upto 50 homes were decided by local planning committees such as the Dlwich Commnuity Council. We made some good decisions there and had a good overview of all local applications - but they were closed by Southwark Labour several years ago supposedly to save money.

It used to be that each main planning committee reviewed all the plans of an application. Some meetings finished at 3 or 4am with huge amounts of scrutiny. Planning committees are now much more driven by the chairperson and don't review plans.

I think a lot has been lost and that helicopter view is no longer taken.

[first mate]

James, I do not mean this as a personal slight against you, however are you really saying that only a handful of people on planning would have had a sense of these three developments (M&S, Cinema, Harris primary)until only very recently. That is slightly stretching the bounds of credulity. It is hardly rocket science to work out that the three together is going to have a major impact on traffic and parking and I am sure that these big developments would have been known about within planning committee circles well before decision time and yet, it seems, the cumulative effect of the three was not raised or considered?

[redjam]

I live very close to the old police station and near where the new cinema will be, and I honestly can't see what the fuss is about. Yes, it's a bit tricky to park near my house on a Saturday but not impossible, and I think the benefits to the community of a new primary school and cinema far outweigh any potential minor parking inconvenience.

My kids are at Heber, incidentally, and it's true that relatively few parents drive - the vast majority walk. Not sure what the teachers do but I've seen several on local buses/trains and if they do drive then their cars get absorbed into the quiet side streets round there quite easily. If the teachers find it tricky to park nearby, they'll take public transport, simple as that. People will do whatever's easiest and parking is a part of that decision.

Just doesn't seem a huge problem to me, and I think we're losing sight of the fact that both things are potentially very good for the local area. In the case of the school, it would be madness to lose any more playground just to provide parking spaces, so I don't really see what the alternative is anyway.