Consultation on ?improving? the junction of East Dulwich Grove, Townley Road and Green Dale

[rch]

One other relevant factor...

I noticed yesterday that the volume of traffic has increased noticeably on Melbourne Grove (where I live) since Townley has been blocked off, even considering that the independent schools are out now.

This makes me think that if Melbourne is blocked off with this mad barrier scheme, Townley will have a similar knock-on increase in volume which the new junction design won't be able to cope with... so you guys should be aware of what impact the Melbourne Barrier feasibility study could have if engineers miss out the Townley/Calton knock-on aspect.

[Tessmo]

@rch Thank you for trying to save the poor tree.

No traffic orders went through until the one @Woodwarde flagged up. From what we can gather, you only need to conduct statutory consultation on permanent traffic orders for very few elements of the scheme, like cycle lanes and yellow lines. That's not the impression we were all given at the March DCC. We thought the total scheme, including the final layout, would go through the statutory consultation phase. But apparently not.

It's great, isn't it? The clear, transparent way that Southwark Council conducts consultations?

[rch]

Hmm, interesting, Tessmo. My cllr highway design protocol training was awhile ago, so I may indeed be wrong... perhaps this reconfiguration could have just been approved by the cabinet member as this is a TfL road with TfL funding?

Would be interested to know the precise policy behind this if someone has a chance to request further information...

But it appears that this current consultation is only yellow lines, etc.

p.s. Looking at the map on page 16 of the Traffic Order PDF, it looks like the trees on the Calton Ave build out are going to have to be removed to accommodate the cycle lane cutting through it, so I will attempt to get the tree manager to arrange transplanting of those if needed, before they get murdered. October would be best time to transplant but we may not have that option.

[MarkT]

Here's the Cabinet Member's Decision:

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=5257

[rch]

Yes, if you scroll down to the General Exception Notice at the bottom of the list, point 2 relates to the 3-month lead in for the Streetworks permits before the works could begin in the first week of July, then point 3 refers to the advertisement of Traffic Management Orders.

So, it looks to me like the cabinet member approved the decision to go ahead with the amended design, which was needed before the statuatory Streetworks permits and Traffic Management Orders could be legally obtained, which needed 3 months.

Hmm, the Streetworks permit scheme legislation changed in Apr 2015, but I don't know if/how this would affect an application made in March 2015... apparently the council can now grant their own permission? Don't have time to study this:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/street-works-permit-schemes-amendments-to-regulations

[annafb]

WE live on Court Lane, got a leaflet from Southwark when the proposal originally made, nothing since.

[Tessmo]

@rch, is there anyone who can explain what you've flagged up, please? I had no idea the Secretary of State used to approve streetworks. It looks as if the legislation you've mentioned came into force on 6 April this year.

As far as we know, the second design for Townley, which was the subject of the re-consultation exercise, was still only in draft form when the cabinet member approved the decision. Was that a strange thing to have done, then?

Have we ended up with the Council, through the cabinet member responsible, approving an unfinished scheme - which means that the final scheme on page 16 of the traffic order has been approved by no one at all, except for the council officers who thought it up?

[BrandNewGuy]

Tessmo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Have we ended up with the Council, through the

> cabinet member responsible, approving an

> unfinished scheme - which means that the final

> scheme on page 16 of the traffic order has been

> approved by no one at all, except for the council

> officers who thought it up?

That's how I understand it. Unbelievable contempt for what was already a hugely flawed consultation process.

[rch]

My instinct is that highways manager Matt Hill would be the best person to approach to get to explain the process, probably copy in all the councillors as this will probably need an official request.

Let me know if you get an answer, as I'm a geek about these sorts of things...

[Zebedee Tring]

With the greatest possible respect to Matt Hill, he is the author of the Community Council report that in the opinion of many was less than forthcoming (to put it very charitably) on the issue of the process and the person who is (allegedly) apparently keeping us in dark about what is happening at the moment. He is not the person that I would approach on this.

[rch]

I hear what you're saying, Zeb, but the immediate problem is that Matt's boss, Des Waters (aka 'Saint Des') is in the process of retiring, so my guess is that there will be a bit of an internal reorganisation until Sept. So, you might as well get the cllrs to start the process with Matt, otherwise it will be Christmas before you get a straight answer...

To be fair, Matt is actually a really good guy... I suspect that he is under instructions from above to 'manage expectations'.

[Zebedee Tring]

I hear what you're saying rch, but doesn't Matt Hill report to anyone else? Or is he going to be the supremo until later this year? If so, this doesn't fill me with confidence. And he didn't come over well at the DCC meetings that I attended.

In the meantime, at least one very strong email has gone to the Cabinet Member and the new MP is unhappy with the lack of recent consultation.

[Zebedee Tring]

Road Traffic Regulation Act Notice for Townley Road junction is in today's "Southwark News" on p. 41. The deadline for objections is 30 July.

[rch]

Hi Zeb, Deborah Collins is Matt's higher up boss... she's also very good, but I'm not sure how the reorganisation following Des' retirement will affect the structure and communication of information.

It's probably best to continue to go the cllr/MP route, but bear in mind that council officers take direction from elected members at the end of the day...

I'll get a copy of the Southwark News and have a look.

[Bicknell]

Was there a Grand Master Plan linking this new Quietway consultation with the Townley Road junction? Or have they just been making it up as they go along?

I think I might start objecting to plans for the Dulwich Village junction. I've got no idea what Southwark is going to come up with or when they're going to start the consultation. But since they're not really interested in what residents think, and they're going to forget to ask me until it's too late, it's probably worth protesting now.

[mockingbird]

There was a grand plan but it might not still be the case. Walked past Townley this eve and there seem to be more extensive works on Calton than I recall in the original consultation. Work underway on the Calton/Townley junction on the playing field side of Calton. I made a mental note to check vs the original consultation diagram.

[@Woodwarde]

Works both side of Calton Ave? Signage perhaps or is it road narrowing.

>Tessmo posted

>Page 16 of this (Townley Road at East Dulwich Grove) seems to be what we need [www.southwark.gov.uk]

Bu nothing visisble on page 16 of the new plan either. It shows only the side of Calton opposite the playing field.

[wulfhound]

Works both side of Calton Ave? Signage perhaps or is it road narrowing.

Looks like drainage related. The work on the playing field side is focused on a manhole cover and/or drain grill.

[first mate]

I see James has announced in another section that Harris Primary (old police station) is to start building/demolition early August, so I am wondering if he knows yet what sort of disruption this is likely to bring to that part of LL and surrounding streets? There are extensive roadworks at the junction of Nx and of course all the stuff at Townley etc.. The extensive M&S build right opposite Nx will also begin soon. Townley is to be closed until end August/ Sept and guys on site inferred could be much longer.

How interesting that all these things are to 'kick off' at round about the same time??? It might make sense to stagger them to minimise disruption?

[rch]

The irony here is that I was awarded a ?2000 CGS grant last Feb to have a highways engineer perform a study of traffic/pedestrian movements for the junction of Lordship Lane and Whateley Rd, to tie in with the new school, with a view towards recommending improvement measures.

I know this junction well so when I asked people on the forum if they wanted me to put in any specific bids, someone requested this and I did it.

I haven't been assigned a highway engineer yet, it probably won't happen until Sept now, by which time the building works for the school should be in progress, so I'll post an update with a view towards getting general views about this particular situation in relationship to the bigger picture of the surrounding roads.

But it would be so much better if we could get a plan to address the problems and knock-on effects in our defined area rather than these piecemeal projects that someone sitting at a computer in Tooley Street is throwing money at.

[rch]

In the meantime, I'm keeping my eye on Calton as well... trying to protect trees, that I cited at the very beginning, from being bulldozed.

The one on Green Dale has just had its pit restored (thanks to help from James), so hopefully it won't die, fingers crossed. But the three trees on the Calton buildout are a bit too close to the new cycle path that's being dug for comfort. They could have moved these trees during the dormant season rather than putting them at risk, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

In the meantime, the cyclists are speeding on the pedestrian pavement along the buildout now that the junction is closed, I nearly got hit four times when I was surveying the trees yesterday.

[first mate]

Rch,

Yes, the piecemeal nature of all this is likely, in my humble opinion, to cause chaos before very long. I cannot decide if this is accident or design.

I also fear for the mature tree outside the police station. All it would take is slip of some piece of machinery.

[rch]

I seem to remember that that tree outside the police station is specially conditioned to be protected, so I'll be keeping my eye on that one as well.

In my opinion the piecemeal nature of everything is simply down to a lack of joined-up thinking in the Tooley Street hierarchy.

However, I'm currently in touch with residents around the area who are preparing to launch a campaign for joined-up thinking in traffic flow studies and highway improvement recommendations, so hopefully there will soon be a petition that we can all sign in order to unite to get our views heard.

[MarkT]

first mate, you write:

"The extensive M&S build right opposite Nx will also begin soon."

Do you have actual information on that? Would they proceed according to the permission already received, or on the rather different application still awaiting permission?

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk:8190/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=dates&keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9560814

MarkT

[@Woodwarde]

Has anyone looked at the new plan yet? Page 16 as highlighted below.

It seems that the turn left from Townley is extremely tight still.

Also those experimental cycle bays on Townley have disappeared.

Tessmo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> T....

> But where is the plan?

> Page 16 of this (Townley Road at East Dulwich

> Grove) seems to be what we need

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/25

> 58/traffic_orders

>

> Hard to read without expertise. Like posting

> something up in a language no one knows. Anyone

> with any expertise out there? ............etc