Tower of London Poppies

[Loz]

Being an Aussie, the ANZAC legends are part of the nations soul. A bit like the 'Dunkirk spirit', though that seems to have faded over time. Each year, as a kid, we would march on April 25th as a tribute to those who gave their lives. The politics of the why and hows were irrelevant. The important thing was to remember and honour the fallen.

These days, wearing a poppy is, for me, an extension of that. I wear a poppy out of remembrance to the fallen and those who returned - primarily to 'our side', but also to all who fell. To remember a group of people that found themselves in a situation I cannot even begin to imagine or comprehend. Who showed bravery when I'm not sure I would have.

[Sue]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> The best way to remember the dead and care for

> families and children would be to not make the

> same mistakes again and again surely

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But most of us are not in a position "not to make the same mistakes (ie these particular mistakes) again and again", are we?

All we can do is vote for what we think is the least horrendous option, demonstrate (if that is our nature) and make our opinions known (fat lot of good that is likely to do) and fervently hope that our elected politicians are making the right call given all the circumstances.

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> As it is it's a bit like lazy Catholics going to

> confession every week and saying sorry for sins

> they repeat over and over - because there is

> always the "moment of reflection"

xxxxxxx

It is quite different, because it is not us personally who have either committed the sins or have any direct say in any sins which may be committed in the future.

In any case, it depends how you define sin. When I was younger I naively told my parents that I didn't think this country should have fought the Germans, because war was wrong, and they were horrified. I now see why.

Sometimes war is the lesser of two evils.

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>

> Sue - how dit 9/11 change it for you?

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It made me realise how the world could be if nobody fought back against the fanatics who want to take it over.

And what life would be like for us - assuming we hadn't been killed by said fanatics.

And it made me realise what the world might have been like now if Hitler had just been allowed to get on with what he was doing.

And that those who died had actually played a very great part in preventing that.

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> Poppies to me now signify, not the fallen from 2

> world wars, defending this country from an

> invading army, but the bogus

> furrowed brow of those in power, showing

> themselves as thoughtful and caring when their

> actions are the complete opposite

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Fine.

Nobody's forcing anybody to wear a poppy or to have particular associations with them.

Each to their own.

Not sure why people are pitching in against poppies on a thread where all the OP asked was how to display one. :(

[Sue]

Mrs Y Wrote:

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> Thank you to those who replied with their

> suggestions, I will leave the rest of you to fight

> it out. Nice to have the freedom to write on such

> a forum.

Yes. Exactly. Some people seem to be missing that point.

[maxxi]

Just because politicians have decided to change what poppies stand for doesn't mean everyone has to buy into it. For many the poppies represent those lost in 2 world wars and not later conflicts whether Korea, The Falklands, Iraq, etc etc.

I remember similar arguments in the early 80s from those who had been vehemently opposed to the Falklands conflict but still wanted to honour the dead of the two World Wars.

I was against the Falklands and Iraq and Afghan but wear a poppy for my Grandfather and no politician is going to decide for me what a poppy stands for. At the same time I feel the automatic almost compulsory wearing of them by newsreaders and MPs and, as the article highlighted says, printed on footballers' shirts so CHOOSING to wear one is not an option, rather oppressive.

[Blah Blah]

I think everyone is making valid points. I think most people do seperate the rememberance from the political. The poppy as we all know, came about as a symbol, out of the true sadness of WWI, where whole villages lost all their men. I don't think there was ever any notion of glorification of war intended there. I had a great uncle who died at the Somme, and I don't see glory. Just grimness and a lonely way to die.

And let's also remember that it was a war that shook the old guard to it's core and changed the social order of Europe and her allies forever. The poppy also reminds us of that and makes us revisit both WW1 and WW2. Whilst leaders, it is true, seem to fail to learn from history, I would hate to see a world where people no longer know anything about those wars, and what was at stake.

And whilst Iraq was/is a shameful exercise, I wouldn't ever deny rememberance to the families of those who have fallen there. Their bereavement is real, and painful too.

[????]

Maxxii sums it up pretty spot on for me.

PLUS I get a bit bored of the "look at me, I don't wear a poppy" stance some take as, in reality, they are in the majority, certainly in London anyway, so and the contrived politics around "warmongering politicians etc" misses the point entirely

[Mick Mac]

If that's the case then there is also the "look at me I do wear a poppy" .... and that probably means I'm a bit more proud of my country than you are doesn't it.

Well no it doesn't.

But unless you have some ability to read minds Quids, you don't know if people are thinking "look at me" or not. It may all be in your mind.

[????]

I,m talking about numerous tedious articles every November (mainly in 'you know where') and some posters on here. I agreed with Maxis post the 'forced wearing, is ridiculous but I,ll go on wearing one every year and not as any kind of statement. You don,t have to wear one and I can understand why you don't want. I don.t judge anyone who chooses not to but the miss representation of what wearing one means is tedious....

[Mick Mac]

You might have taken that the wrong way - the second part was only having a little jibe at your mind reading ability :)

The first part was, whilst I agree there are those who don't wear poppies to be "alternative" there are also those who think its ultra loyal/nationalistic to wear them.

Whilst we both suspect this is the case - just by looking at someone you cant tell what their position is.

From my personal perspective - If there was a poppy for WWI and WWII remembrance only, I'd be happy to wear one. We owe our liberty and democracy to these people.

[Alan Medic]

What about WWII Mick? Is that so different or is that a typo? It would be interesting if there was another flower used to represent just the World Wars.

[Mick Mac]

Typo amended, meant I and II.

[Sue]

Mrs Y, I found these by chance while looking for perspex frames online:

http://plasticonline.co.uk/tower-poppy-displays.html

[MrsR]

Wow Sue, what choice! Mine is in an empty 'bottle green' cordial bottle with labels removed (cheapskate option).

[numbers]

???? Wrote:

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> I,m talking about numerous tedious articles every

> November (mainly in 'you know where') and some

> posters on here. I agreed with Maxis post the

> 'forced wearing, is ridiculous but I,ll go on

> wearing one every year and not as any kind of

> statement. You don,t have to wear one and I can

> understand why you don't want. I don.t judge

> anyone who chooses not to but the miss

> representation of what wearing one means is

> tedious....

What quids and maxxi said. Don't agree with the forced wearing of the poppy on the BBC. To me the poppy was to commemorate the deaths from the first and second world wars, it is a mark of respect to those who died not glorification of war. I appreciate that it means different things to others.