The Duke...its a struggle

[Cassius]

I agree with Sue - there is nothing nicer than sitting in a sunny beer garden with a pint or a large glass of wine - no food required or needed.

I think SteveT is thinking of quite a narrow band of peoople (ie not older or poorer people who can't AFFORD to go out to eat - not students or young people who hate to let food get in the way of a good drink up - and not people who just want a DRINK in a pub)

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't think SteveT has it wrong at all - I think he is essentially correct on this

If the theory is that some pubs just concentrate on drink and ignore the fripperies, catering for the less well off who just want a drink, the question has to be "where are the poor people to keep these places in business?". Because they don't appear to be in the pubs which don't do food - or at least not many of them and certainly not enough of them

[Huguenot]

Well, much as I dislike pedantry, and so rarely indulge, ST and SMG are not in fact on the money with this one.

We're drinking more than ever (detailed report attached)... litres of alcohol per head per year:

1960 - 5.57

1970 - 7.00

1980 - 9.25

1990 - 9.28

2000 - 10.18

2004 - 11.20

I'm sure that Pubs could get extra money by offering a slightly more for non-drinkers, but we are drinking more and more.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But no-one is disputing (or at least I'm not) that we as a country are drinking more - it's just that that fact isn't closely connected with booze-only pubs suffering.

Most of the busy pubs serve food (and a lot more alcohol)

Most of the quiet pubs serve just booze (to fewer people)

[lenk]

See CAMRA's press release earlier today re: just what it all means for booze-only pubs who don't subsidise their income with club nights / upmarket bangers and mash : http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=302803

[BigPhil]

my thoughts only on what makes a pub sucessful (hopefully)

good range of beers , wines and spirits

good range of alcohol free drinks ( hot and cold)

some food option ( different offers for different pubs)

good sports coverage ( I only run sports pubs so have no real alternative to this )

But the main thing that will get customers coming back is GOOD STAFF !

yes I shouted that bit out , you can get all the products right but useless , inept, grumpy , bored , barstaff will lose more customers than lack of food or entertaiment.

anyway , thats just my personal opinion.

cheers to the beers

all hail to the ale

and a fruit based cocktail for the ladies

(quote : Al Murray, the pub landlord, circa 2004 )

13 days to go , till the BigPhil Pub Roadshow arrives in SE15

[SeanMacGabhann]

You have set expectations high Phil..!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I'm with Sue. Much as I like, eg, the Mag, one feels a bit out of place going there just for a drink. It really is a restaurant now.

If I want a drink and chat then something like the CPT appeals much more.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I would say I only drink when I go to the Mag about 80% of my visits. I totally understand a preference for somewhere like the CPT but

a) to state it's really a restaurant now isn't factually accurate

b) the CPT is suffereing for a lack of customers

From a preference point of view you are right. But if the argument is (and it was) do pubs need to accomdate food to survive/thrive - I would say the answer is yes

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Well I'm only going by my last visit: there was one purely seating area (ie, sofas) - the rest were all tables and all filled with diners and the music was too loud to talk comfortably.

[Catalyst]

BigPhil Wrote:

But the main thing that will get customers coming back is GOOD STAFF !

This is one of the reasons The Duke failed in it's previous incarnation imo. The surly kid with the tattoos put me off going there big time.

The Gowlett and The Nun's Head seem to hang on to friendly staff who look like they really enjoy working there. The less friendly ones don't last.

[SeanMacGabhann]

The staff they had by the end were not good - but I would say the staff they had for the first managers spell at the Duke were some of the best I have encountered. The next batched struggled manfully as well... Staff wasn't the real problem I don't think