Goodrich parents - which secondary schools are you going for?

[Monkey]

Reading the Charter thread, I realised that there had been a petition from Goodrich parents to get Charter 2 to include the Goodrich catchment within their catchment. Sadly, this has not worked out.

So my question is, where do Goodrich children go to secondary schools at the moment? Am I right in thinking that it's mostly Harris (boys and girls), Harris academy at Peckham and Kingsdale? Any other likely options?

Thanks!

[Curmudgeon]

Catchments don't work like that

You should visit all the schools and make your own mind up

How do you know you won't be in the initial intake for charter 2?

I do appreciate how nerve wracking the whole secondary transfer can be but try not to get caught up in the panic and angst, do your research, make sensible and qualified choices and get your application in on time

[redjam]

Sydenham Girls and Forest Hill boys are both good and take lots of ED kids.

But bear in mind that at the Charter 2 meeting the other night, they said - when pressed, with all the usual caveats that no one can predict accurately - that they expect their catchment to extend 1.5 to 2km. So most Goodrich parents have a very good shot of getting in. Plus of course Charter 1's catchment should increase once the new school opens.

[Tanza]

Hello - I'm not aware of any boy in east dulwich getting in to forest hill this year. (Apart from sibling etc places)

Certainly the top band was so oversubscribed that no boy living in central east dulwich stood a chance of a place. It's possible the catchment for lower bands may have stretched this far.

Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sydenham Girls and Forest Hill boys are both good

> and take lots of ED kids.

>

> But bear in mind that at the Charter 2 meeting the

> other night, they said - when pressed, with all

> the usual caveats that no one can predict

> accurately - that they expect their catchment to

> extend 1.5 to 2km. So most Goodrich parents have a

> very good shot of getting in. Plus of course

> Charter 1's catchment should increase once the new

> school opens.

[Curmudgeon]

It also matters which position you put the schools on your list

Similar issues at Sydenham Girls ...I think those who expected it to be a fallback school when they didn't put it first were mightily surprised to realise that others did it put it first and so got in whereas thy were wait-listed

At least that's what I assume happened

[tomskip]

Forest Hill Boys had very nearly 3 times as many applicants in Band 1A than in Band 3 this year.

Our son is on the waiting list and we live in a road very close to Goodrich School where there has been no problem in getting a place at FHB or Sydenham Girls before. Goodrich children have had a particularly bad year for getting a secondary school of their choice this year, lots of very disappointed pupils.

Hopefully the new Charter School will change things for future leavers.

[simonethebeaver]

Curmudgeon, the order you put schools makes no difference whatsoever. You get into schools according to their admissions policy, and then you are given a place in the one you qualify for. If you can be offered a place in more than one of your options, you will be allocated your higher preference. The school doesn't know where they sit in your preferences and they are not allowed to factor that into their offer of a place even if somehow (ie you've told them) they find out.

[Monkey]

Thank you all for your answers. And good luck with everything, Tomskip.

[Tanza]

Another school on the radar this year for people in East Dulwich is Elm Green - a co-ed in Tulse Hill. Their catchment reaches East Dulwich.

[landsberger]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It also matters which position you put the schools

> on your list

Have to correct you here. It matters in terms of whether you make a realistic choice, but schools do not know where on the six preferences they are for you. When admissions are done, you are allocated a place at the school you have applied to that has a place AND you meet the entrance criteria.

> Similar issues at Sydenham Girls ...I think those

> who expected it to be a fallback school when they

> didn't put it first were mightily surprised to

> realise that others did it put it first and so got

> in whereas thy were wait-listed

>

> At least that's what I assume happened

People do so little research on this, then whine when they don't get a school in the area, sadly

[landsberger]

East Dulwich ward destinations for 2014, in approximate order. The first 4 form around 70% of the appropriate population age group. Not 100% accurate, as siblings and selective entry for some schools skews the figures, but here it is.

The Charter School

Kingsdale Foundation School

Harris Boys' Academy East Dulwich

Sydenham School

Harris Academy Peckham

Harris Girls' Academy East Dulwich

Bishop Thomas Grant Catholic Secondary School

The St Thomas the Apostle College

The London Oratory School

Notre Dame Roman Catholic Girls' School

BRIT School for Performing Arts and Technology

St Ursula's Convent School

The Grey Coat Hospital

Coloma Convent Girls' School

Sacred Heart Catholic School

Prendergast-Hilly Fields College

St Saviour's and St Olave's Church of England School

Forest Hill School

Haberdashers' Aske's Hatcham College

[landsberger]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Elmgreen in Lambeth if you live in East Dulwich. These are the percentages recruited by ward last year. So you might conceivably get in if you live in College or Village (or satisfy one of their other entrance criteria)

Ward Borough % Distance

Thurlow Park Lambeth 19% 0.5km

Tulse Hill Lambeth 18% 1.3km

Knight's Hill Lambeth 17% 1km

Gipsy Hill Lambeth 15% 1.6km

Streatham Hill Lambeth 7% 1km

Streatham Wells Lambeth Under 5%1.4km

Brixton Hill Lambeth Under 5% 1.9km

College Southwark Under 5% 2km

Norbury Croydon Under 5% 3.2km

Upper Norwood Croydon Under 5% 2.7km

Clapham Town Lambeth Under 5% 3.8km

Coldharbour Lambeth Under 5% 2.7km

Ferndale Lambeth Under 5% 2.9km

Herne Hill Lambeth Under 5% 2.2km

Larkhall Lambeth Under 5% 3.6km

St Leonard's Lambeth Under 5% 2km

Streatham South Lambeth Under 5% 2.8km

Village SouthwarkUnder 5% 1.8km

Penge and Cator Bromley Under 5% 4.7km

Selhurst Croydon Under 5% 5.5km

South Norwood Croydon Under 5% 4.1km

Thornton Heath Croydon Under 5% 3.9km

West Thornton Croydon Under 5% 5.2km

[landsberger]

Sydenham School here

Ward Borough % Distance

Forest Hill Lewisham 14% 1.1km

Perry Vale Lewisham 11% 1.8km

Sydenham Lewisham 11% 1.2km

Crofton Park Lewisham 8% 2.7km

Bellingham Lewisham 7% 3.2km

Catford South Lewisham 5% 4.3km

College Southwark 5% 0.4km

Rushey Green Lewisham Under 5% 3.7km

Peckham Rye Southwark Under 5% 2.5km

Whitefoot Lewisham Under 5% 4.9km

East Dulwich Southwark Under 5% 2.2km

Penge and Cator Bromley Under 5% 2.5km

Downham Lewisham Under 5% 5.1km

Lewisham Central Lewisham Under 5% 4.9km

Telegraph Hill Lewisham Under 5% 4.1km

The Lane Southwark Under 5% 3.7km

Clock House Bromley Under 5% 3.6km

Gipsy Hill Lambeth Under 5% 1.6km

Blackheath Lewisham Under 5% 6.1km

Brockley Lewisham Under 5% 4.8km

Evelyn Lewisham Under 5% 6.3km

Grove Park Lewisham Under 5% 6.5km

Ladywell Lewisham Under 5% 4.1km

New Cross Lewisham Under 5% 5.4km

Nunhead Southwark Under 5% 3.9km

South Camberwell Southwark Under 5% 3.3km

Copers Cope Bromley Under 5% 4.3km

Crystal Palace Bromley Under 5% 1.9km

Selhurst Croydon Under 5% 5.1km

Upper Norwood Croydon Under 5% 2.9km

Woodside Croydon Under 5% 4.5km

Knight's Hill Lambeth Under 5% 2.6km

Lee Green Lewisham Under 5% 5.7km

Brunswick Park Southwark Under 5% 4.4km

Camberwell Green Southwark Under 5% 5km

Livesey Southwark Under 5% 5.3km

Peckham Southwark Under 5% 4.8km

Forest Hill School here

Ward Borough % Distance

Perry Vale Lewisham 20% 1.1km

Sydenham Lewisham 14% 0.5km

Forest Hill Lewisham 13% 0.9km

Bellingham Lewisham 9% 2.4km

Crofton Park Lewisham 9% 2.3km

Penge and Cator Bromley 6% 1.9km

Catford South Lewisham Under 5% 3.6km

Rushey Green Lewisham Under 5% 3.1km

Whitefoot Lewisham Under 5% 4.1km

Downham Lewisham Under 5% 4.3km

Ladywell Lewisham Under 5% 3.8km

College Southwark Under 5% 1.2km

Clock House Bromley Under 5% 3.1km

Crystal Palace Bromley Under 5% 1.8km

Blackheath Lewisham Under 5% 5.7km

Lee Green Lewisham Under 5% 5.1km

Lewisham Central Lewisham Under 5% 4.3km

Telegraph Hill Lewisham Under 5% 4km

Peckham Rye Southwark Under 5% 2.6km

Copers Cope Bromley Under 5% 3.6km

Kelsey and Eden Park Bromley Under 5% 4.7km

Upper Norwood Croydon Under 5% 3.3km

Gipsy Hill Lambeth Under 5% 2.2km

Brockley Lewisham Under 5% 4.6km

Evelyn Lewisham Under 5% 6.2km

East Dulwich Southwark Under 5% 2.6km

Livesey Southwark Under 5% 5.5km

Nunhead Southwark Under 5% 4km

The Lane Southwark Under 5% 4km

[Carbonara]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It also matters which position you put the schools

> on your list

>

> Similar issues at Sydenham Girls ...I think those

> who expected it to be a fallback school when they

> didn't put it first were mightily surprised to

> realise that others did it put it first and so got

> in whereas thy were wait-listed

>

> At least that's what I assume happened

Nope!

That was the old system. the Equal Preference System has been law for at least the last 5 years, and is as others have described. You list your schools in order of preference, the schools that can offer you a place according to their published criteria (wherever you have placed them on the list) tell the LA, and the LA offers you the school that can offer you a place and is highest up your list.

This means that people can put 'wild cards' and 'hoped for' schools higher up the list and if they don't get them, still have the school that they will almost certainly get a place in last on the list and as a fall back.

List your schools in genuine order of preference, and include at least one school that you should realistically get a place in.

No 'game plan' works - no putting down one school only , no listing your favourite school 6 times. If you do not list a school you will realistically get into, you will be allocated a school anywhere in the borough that has a place once all the other parents' preferences have been allocated!

[Carbonara]

One thing to bear in mind is that the published last distances refer to the offers made on National Offer Day, not the many people who get into a school between March and September on the waiting lists.

[Curmudgeon]

simonethebeaver Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Curmudgeon, the order you put schools makes no

> difference whatsoever. You get into schools

> according to their admissions policy, and then you

> are given a place in the one you qualify for. If

> you can be offered a place in more than one of

> your options, you will be allocated your higher

> preference. The school doesn't know where they sit

> in your preferences and they are not allowed to

> factor that into their offer of a place even if

> somehow (ie you've told them) they find out.

So I'm confused now

Say 10 people put a school first choice and they all qualify for a place at the school and take the last 10 places then surely there are no places left for people who put it 3rd or 4th on their list even if those people live a similar distance away.

I understood that it is not the school who manages the preferences but the pan london application process ...there must be a reason for preferences in terms of initial offer for students meeting the same Criteria otherwise what's the point of it?

[bonaome]

Schools have different procedures for admissions, for example some have a lottery system, while others offer places to kids living nearest to the school. But, they all fill up the places according to their admissions policy, without knowing where they are on the child's preference order, and tell the LEA they can offer a place. The LEA makes the offers to kids. If more than one school has offered a place to a child, the LEA offers a place at the school that the child has placed highest on their preference list. The places at any other schools that also offered that child a place are then available to other children under the same procedure.

[simonethebeaver]

Curmudgeon, my first post isn't very clear but the position is:

Child A puts, say, Sunnyside School 1st, Grange Hill 2nd and Bog Street 3rd.

Child B puts Grange Hill 1st, Bog Street 2nd and Sunnyside School 3rd.

Child A lives 1250m from Sunnyside, 500m from Grange Hill and 500m from Bog Street.

Child B lives 2000m from Grange Hill, 1500m from Bog Street and 1195m from Sunnyside.

You need to live 1200m from any school to get in.

So Child A gets into Grange Hill, their second choice. They would also get into Bog Street on distance, but have indicated their preference is Grange Hill. That's the point of listing preferences - it's not a criteria for the schools, but for the pupil, in a situation where there is actually a choice of schools.

Child B gets into Sunnyside, because they are too far from the other schools, even though it's their third preference and it would be Child A's first preference - Child A lives too far away.

The 15m nearer that Child B lives is what matters, not the preference order.

So as others have said, there's no harm at all in putting 'wished for' schools on your list, so long as you put the schools in the order you WANT them. So if you do happen to get into two or more schools, you will be offered the place you want more. And you have at least one school on your list that you WILL get into, even if that is your last choice.

The admissions are done purely on distance (apart from those schools that operate any sort of lottery system) so one child might get into five schools and another into just one, or even none. The child who has got into five schools needs to make it clear which one they WANT to go to.

[Carbonara]

Or to put it another way:

Once all the applications are in the PAN London computer sends each school a list of every single applicant who listed that school.

The school ranks every single applicant according to how they meet the criteria for that school, irrespective of how high in the list the applicant placed them.(the school does not even know how whether they were the first or last choice).

The school then tells the LA which are the 180 (e.g) applicants they can offer a place to. The LA computer then puts a big tick or a cross against all the schools the applicant has listed:

MilesAwayGrammar - No (didn't get high enough 11+ score)

Charter - No - lives too far away

A.N.other school- yes, can offer a place based on distance

Yet A.N Other Yes - can offer a place from lottery

St Holiness - yes can offer a place based on faith criteria and distance.

The applicant would be offered A.N Other, and the places at YetA.N.Other school and St Holiness will be put back in the computer and offered to the next person down the list and so on, until every child has a place. The next person down the list may be a child who already has a tick against another school - but if the new offer is from a higher preference school then the new offer will take precedence.

When the computer has stopped whirring the place that each child is offered is the one that could be offered and is highest up the list.

Some people refuse to put less popular (but closer) schools as fall back preferences in 5th and 6th position because they believe that the LA will 'decide' to allocate them that school because they want to fill it up and will choose not to offer them their first choice. This is not legal, and doesn't happen. The so-called 'equal preference system', where schools do not know who put them first etc, is law.