Nothing to complain about

[Sue]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What if Cath Kidson opened a store locally

>

> How would we feel

"We"?

I'm sure many people would be delighted (not me).

ETA: And I believe it's Kidston with a t.

[LondonMix]

Jeremy please tell me in the last few years which independent retailers have been replaced by a chain on Lordship Lane or North Cross rd? If You quote me properly it's clear I said replace. The overall mix between chain and indies has remained fairly constant and I stand by my statement that there is no real trend of chains replacing indies.

The Cinema was a church hall, not and independent shop. Some small chains have taken over other small chains- Ie the Franco Manco taking over Draft House etc but the few major chains that are on Lordship Lane for the most part have been here for quite some time now (8 years or more).

[Jeremy]

Oliver Bonas, White Stuff, Gourmet Burger, Franco Manca, Sainburys Local, Cafe Nero. All relatively recent IMO. Not loads, but not negligible either. Seems to me like a slow, gradual change.

Also not sure why chains taking over non-retail premises should be exempt from the equation. It still affects the chain-vs-independent balance.

[El Presidente]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oliver Bonas, White Stuff, Gourmet Burger, Franco

> Manca, Sainburys Local, Cafe Nero. All relatively

> recent IMO. Not loads, but not negligible either.

> Seems to me like a slow, gradual change.

>

> Also not sure why chains taking over non-retail

> premises should be exempt from the equation. It

> still affects the chain-vs-independent balance.

of these only franco manca is actually recent. Unless you have an intergalactic concept of time and space that is.

[red devil]

Are estate agents allowed into the equation? Some are a chain of sorts...

[Jeremy]

If you or LondonMix can point out an equal number of indie shops who have taken over from chains, I'll happily agree that there is no trend.

Or maybe I won't, because I'm actually long past giving a rats arse whether a shop has one branch or 1000 and this is a really stupid f*cking argument.

[Andrew1011]

Oh Jeremy, don't get overwrought about it. I don't think you've quite got the hang of this social media/discussion thing.

[Jeremy]

Just annoyed with myself for taking the bait and getting dragged into an argument, Andrew!

You are right, LondonMix. We don't have chains in perfect, wonderful ED! The very thought!

There. The end.

[LondonMix]

There is no need to get upset or continually misrepresent what I am saying. I disagree with something's you've said but I'm not attacking you.

None of the shops you mentioned are new (8 to 9 years old). Franco Manca took over from another small chain (draft House) not an independent.

My entire point is that the shops that are still independent are likely to remain independent because the size of the retail units are too small for the required footprint of a chain.

So while higher end chains like M&S might take over lower end chains like Iceland I don't anticipate any significant change in the independent make up of the high street as a result of the cinema and M&S (unlike you).

There are only two existing shops that might be large enough for the chains that don't have them already: the old ED Deli site and Foxtons (which is a chain too)Some of the apartment blocks going up in the area equally might create chain coffee retail units. However most of the existing units on the high street suitable for chains were taken by chains 8 to 9 years ago.

[Jeremy]

Grotbags was the one who thought Picturehouse/M&S would open the floodgates. Not me. I said that there's a possibility it might have an effect, but not necessarily. Oh well.

[LondonMix]

Okay, its just my opinion. None of us have a crystal ball regarding how the high street will evolve. I've lived in the area for a long time now and I certainly didn't see it coming. Like the OP, I actually love the new amenities-- cinema, Burro e Salvia, Cave de Bruno, Oddonos, etc. I like all the new stuff up in Peckham too, including the summer rooftop cinema.

We are all lucky to have so much choice.

[????]

That top end of LL opposite the cinema is now buzzing.....crappy end is now down towards the EDT

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree with that quids (happening to live up that end of the lane 😊)

[LondonMix]

Yeah-- near the cinema is my end of of ED as well. That reminds me that the rumour was Tortilla would be taking over the Irish Shop-- which if true would be an example of a chain taking over an indie. I see there is some working going on there at the moment. Does anyone know what the story is?

[????]

yup. On Saturday with all the alfresco seats it was like the champs elysees on that stretch :)

[Otta]

I was out down there last Saturday for the first time in ages, and was struck by how quiet the whole Lane was (started at Lordship and went down to Bishop).

[LondonMix]

Really? I wasn't around this weekend (away on holiday). Its usually pretty heaving even during the weekday evenings. Perhaps everyone else is on holiday too...

[Andrew1011]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I see there is some working going on there

> at the moment. Does anyone know what the story

> is?

I'm sure I read somewhere very recently that Picturehouse are taking it over. Anyone else hear this?

[Seabag]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What if Cath Kidson opened a store locally

> >

> > How would we feel

>

>

> "We"?

>

> I'm sure many people would be delighted (not me).

>

> ETA: And I believe it's Kidston with a t.

#Pedant

And to think I worked for her 20 yrs ago

Ha ha !

:))

[maxxi]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> M&S is one chain replacing another (Iceland) not

> an increase in the number of chains. Almost every

> new shop that's opened to replace an existing shop

> in the last few years is still independent.

If a business having two or more shops can be called a chain (can it?) then aren't Burro e Salvia (2 shops), Boulangerie Jade (4 shops) and Oddono's (6 shops) chains? And did they replace chains or...?

Not trying to stir things... honest.

[Andrew1011]

maxxi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If a business having two or more shops can be

> called a chain (can it?) then aren't Burro e

> Salvia (2 shops), Boulangerie Jade (4 shops) and

> Oddono's (6 shops) chains? And did they replace

> chains or...?

When most people think of 'chains' they think of shops like Boots, Superdrug, River Island, Specsavers, Topman, W H Smith, Ryman, Pizza Express, to name but a few. None of those mentioned by you are anywhere near their scale and certainly don't spring to mind when people speak of the homogenisation of high streets across the country.

When I moved to East Dulwich it barely had shops let alone chains, although the largish Co-op store was still operating on most of the Lordship Lane site between North Cross and Shawbury Roads. Oh and a Tesco, roughly the size of a small Tesco Express, and still the size of the current shop unit, on the corner of North Cross Road had recently closed down. I can't recall which supermarket company then had what is now the Co-op, but it was a smallish chain and not one of the big four or five.

maxxi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not trying to stir things... honest.

We believe you... honest.

[Jeremy]

Otta - lots of people away on holiday. The office and train both seem quieter than usual this week.

[LondonMix]

I agree with Andrew that I'd still class them as independent retailers. They replaced similar small chains. For instance, Burro e Salvia replaced Speedo Pizza which has more than one outlet.

I can't remember what was there before Oddonos amymore but most of the long standing indies on LL have more than one outlet including Le Chardon, Lordship Lane Carpets, etc. If some think having a few outlets means you are no longer independent then Lordship Lsne is largely non indie chains already.

I'm not against chains- I'd kill for a Nandos. My only point was that most major national chains need a minimum square footage for their business model. Because the retail units on LL are so small it excludes them. Chains that need less space like Tortilla eye might make it work but our small units will mostly remain boutiquey- too small for mass retailers like H&M etc

[Earl Aelfheah]

Tortilla would be a welcome addition to the lane. Hope that rumour's true.

[LondonMix]

I now remember someone working at the cinema told me they were bidding for the space but the price wanted was getting unreasonable.

Not sure if in the end the cinema has it or if its someone else.