Is there a God?

[The Chair]

The Chair is far too sensible/cowardly to get drawn into this one. He is though reminded that religious "discussions" online are usually futile and tend to reinforce entrenched beliefs...

Please play nicely...

[Brendan]

Wel just coz you don't know.

[Narnia]

The Chair Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Chair is far too sensible/cowardly to get

> drawn into this one. He is though reminded that

> religious "discussions" online are usually futile

> and tend to reinforce entrenched beliefs...

>

> Please play nicely...

Excuse me Chair but as I started this thread I feel I should have the right to pull you up on a complete misconception you are reinforcing with your post. This is not intended to be a religious discussion but one on the possible existence or otherwise of God. The fact that religions lay claim to Him/Her/It is neither here nor there. I had a religion forced on me in my childhood where you were led to understand that doing good got you to heaven and doing bad got you to hell. The religion decided what the terms and conditions were and generally fell back on an old book which had probably lost a lot in translation, to back them up. What the hell is hell anyway?

Religions tell you that God either rewards or punishes you depending on what you do. Suicide bombers take solace in the 'fact' they will have several virgins lined up to greet them upon death. Do they ever ask 'what if they were all mingers'?

My own view is that God is to be discovered but only by those who want to.I don't believe in punishment or reward as being part of His remit. We punish ourselves enough in various ways without needing a God to do it for us. As for the reward bit..........well that old book has a quote in it along the lines of 'seek and ye shall find'. The question is are you a seeker or not?

[Narnia]

The Chair Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Chair is far too sensible/cowardly to get

> drawn into this one. He is though reminded that

> religious "discussions" online are usually futile

> and tend to reinforce entrenched beliefs...

>

> Please play nicely...

Excuse me Chair but as I started this thread I feel I should have the right to pull you up on a complete misconception you are reinforcing with your post. This is not intended to be a religious discussion but one on the possible existence or otherwise of God. The fact that religions lay claim to Him/Her/It is neither here nor there. I had a religion forced on me in my childhood where you were led to understand that doing good got you to heaven and doing bad got you to hell. The religion decided what the terms and conditions were and generally fell back on an old book which had probably lost a lot in translation, to back them up. What the hell is hell anyway?

Religions tell you that God either rewards or punishes you depending on what you do. Suicide bombers take solace in the 'fact' they will have several virgins lined up to greet them upon death. Do they ever ask 'what if they were all mingers'?

My own view is that God is to be discovered but only by those who want to.I don't believe in punishment or reward as being part of His remit. We punish ourselves enough in various ways without needing a God to do it for us. As for the reward bit..........well that old book has a quote in it along the lines of 'seek and ye shall find'. The question is are you a seeker or not?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Declan, can't let you get away with that. Sorry to divert the thread for a mo.

I presume you are referring to Christianity (that ol' book, etc). Salvation is not dependent upon doing good or bad but upon grace - ie, Christ died for us and took the punishment we deserve. You don't have to do anything except believe. Of course, one hopes that accepting this, one will want to then do what pleases God and turn away from sin, but no works of man is gonna get you to heaven (at least according to that book!)

As you were.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Declan, can't let you get away with that. Sorry to divert the thread for a mo.

I presume you are referring to Christianity (that ol' book, etc). Salvation is not dependent upon doing good or bad but upon grace - ie, Christ died for us and took the punishment we deserve. You don't have to do anything except believe. Of course, one hopes that accepting this, one will want to then do what pleases God and turn away from sin, but no works of man is gonna get you to heaven (at least according to that book!)

As you were.

[SeanMacGabhann]

That's ONE of many interpretations of that same Book tho' isn't it PGC?

[SeanMacGabhann]

That's ONE of many interpretations of that same Book tho' isn't it PGC?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

It's years since the Reformation - get with it Sean, my lad!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

It's years since the Reformation - get with it Sean, my lad!

[Narnia]

PGC

I thought Jesus was a man.

Edited to ask what you think I'm getting away with?

[Narnia]

PGC

I thought Jesus was a man.

Edited to ask what you think I'm getting away with?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I was thinking more of all the bazillion fundamentalist Christian churches PGC. I think they require more than just "believing"

[SeanMacGabhann]

I was thinking more of all the bazillion fundamentalist Christian churches PGC. I think they require more than just "believing"

[Brendan]

Declan your post reflects the point I have made twice in recent posts, that in order to explore the question of god you have disregard the concept of god. You still seem to be hanging onto the concept of a belief structure and rather asking question about the nature of religion than the human experience of the universes.

But does anyone ever listen to me?

No Brendan they don?t do they and wouldn?t the world be oh so much of a better place if they did?

Oh look a squirrel.

[Brendan]

Declan your post reflects the point I have made twice in recent posts, that in order to explore the question of god you have disregard the concept of god. You still seem to be hanging onto the concept of a belief structure and rather asking question about the nature of religion than the human experience of the universes.

But does anyone ever listen to me?

No Brendan they don?t do they and wouldn?t the world be oh so much of a better place if they did?

Oh look a squirrel.

[Brendan]

On the biblical point. Interpretation of the bible is not even uniform within specific churches let alone between the vast array of different belief structures that hang their faith on it.

It is true to say that Christianity in general works on the premise that people are granted the grace to enter heaven due to Christ?s sacrifice and that all they have to do is accept this. But there are always conditions to this. These conditions depend on which sect you fall into and can be anything from, ?Just so long as you don?t murder people on a regular basis? or ?Just so long as if you are gay you spend your entire life denying your true sexuality.? to ?just so long as you kill for our cause and visit the witchdoctor who will give you a magic potion made from human body parts.?

[Brendan]

On the biblical point. Interpretation of the bible is not even uniform within specific churches let alone between the vast array of different belief structures that hang their faith on it.

It is true to say that Christianity in general works on the premise that people are granted the grace to enter heaven due to Christ?s sacrifice and that all they have to do is accept this. But there are always conditions to this. These conditions depend on which sect you fall into and can be anything from, ?Just so long as you don?t murder people on a regular basis? or ?Just so long as if you are gay you spend your entire life denying your true sexuality.? to ?just so long as you kill for our cause and visit the witchdoctor who will give you a magic potion made from human body parts.?

[Narnia]

Brendan, where on earth do I say I have a concept of a belief structure which I agree with? I see belief structures all around me. I don't believe them though. The fact is I agree with what you said, apart from the bit about what you understood me to have said.

Please advise or clarify what exactly you meant as you've confused me.......or I you.

[Narnia]

Brendan, where on earth do I say I have a concept of a belief structure which I agree with? I see belief structures all around me. I don't believe them though. The fact is I agree with what you said, apart from the bit about what you understood me to have said.

Please advise or clarify what exactly you meant as you've confused me.......or I you.

[Brendan]

I?ve kind of confused myself too Declan.

I?ve re-read your post and what I thought you said is not what you actually said, if you see what I?m saying.

You were actually qualifying you position in your second two sentences rather than asking question.

Apologies for the confusion.

[Brendan]

I?ve kind of confused myself too Declan.

I?ve re-read your post and what I thought you said is not what you actually said, if you see what I?m saying.

You were actually qualifying you position in your second two sentences rather than asking question.

Apologies for the confusion.

[mockney piers]

Glad that's clear then.

So to bottom out this whole debate, noone knows whether or not there is a god. Some peple believe and some don't and rarely does the twain meet.

Organised religion is genrally bad except when it's good.

The universe is big.

There is nothing better in life than writing on the sole of your slipper with a biro.

[mockney piers]

Glad that's clear then.

So to bottom out this whole debate, noone knows whether or not there is a god. Some peple believe and some don't and rarely does the twain meet.

Organised religion is genrally bad except when it's good.

The universe is big.

There is nothing better in life than writing on the sole of your slipper with a biro.

[The Chair]

Excuse me Chair but as I started this thread I feel I should have the right to pull you up on a complete misconception you are reinforcing with your post.

The Chair nods sagely, and refers the honourable gentleman to the opening sentence of his post...