luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!

[JohnL]

Peckham Vision has setup a meeting at the Bussey on 17th November.

Deadline apparently moved to 3rd December.

https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/posts/1024442117578651

Edit: Owner is known (I saw it earlier on FB but might have been removed)- they purchased in early 2015.:)

[ed_pete]

What's the relevance of the owner/developer ?

[JohnL]

ed_pete Wrote:

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> What's the relevance of the owner/developer ?

I'd think they'd not want to be known (as might get harassed)

What I saw this morning is definitely gone (and I can't remember :) )

It's not an individual.

[nxjen]

Applicant given on planning application form is Frame Property, information is in the public sphere. They have offices at 100 Clements Road, Bermondsey i.e. the old Peak Frean factory.

Having read the application, I think it shows great sensitivity to the culture that has evolved around the Bussey Building and wishes to maintain it.

[JohnL]

Peckham Vision have named the company in the invitation anyway - not that it matters - it is a professional property developer and they seem to be open about it on their webpage

http://frameproperty.com/portfolio/electric/

(beaten to it :) )

[JohnL]

The same line is coming out in all the reports - nothing really mainstream yet however (even the timeout quote was part of a blog). If it goes wrong Southwark will look very stupid down the line - whatever their decision.

another one today

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=32180&comments=1

[LondonMix]

JohnL -- have you read the planning application?

[binkylilyput]

These flats will be great for the existing people of Peckham to buy.........oh no, maybe not really.

[LondonMix]

A 4 bed house in Peckham already costs over a million pounds. Many people who own homes in Peckham can probably easily afford these 11 flats. Though I do think some affordable housing should be included in the scheme.

[JohnL]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> JohnL -- have you read the planning application?

Not in full - but enough that I can see it seems to be sympathetic to the traders. Maybe both sides will move closer as the developers have been invited to the meeting on Tuesday (assuming it's not an ambush).

Will read in full tomorrow (more time).

The worst outcome for me would be the traders all move out when building work starts (temporarily) and for various reasons never come back.

[LondonMix]

I agree. I won't be able to attend but do let me know how it goes. I'd be interested to know how the developers plan to carryout the work without disrupting the existing traders logistically. Its a positive sign that they've invited the developers to come along.

In the planning application, the developers said they are architects that decided to go into development and are a design led firm. Hopefully, their creative backgrounds will allow them to effectively communicate with other creatives and smooth over some of the misunderstandings.

[JohnL]

Peckham Vision have now posted what I think they see as the issue - that future residents of the flats will complain and get venues shut - mentions Canavans who face the same issue too.

https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/?fref=nf

[Blah Blah]

That was what I meant when I said it's not the right location for flats - being right on the doorstep of the Bussey. I take the point about flats being elsewhere around the venue, but most of those are not right on the doorstep. Maybe soundproofing the flats will work, but what happens in summer when people want to have their windows open?

[nashoi]

All a bit reminiscent of Imperial Gardens. I hope Southwark have cleaned up their act a bit since then.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/apr/06/race.arts

[LondonMix]

JohnL I think Jeremy spoke about that case yesterday. Have a look at the acoustics report. The insulation results are very good and exceed minimum standards for lab tested glazing and they are going above that glazing in total acoustic design. Lab testing isn't done by the acoustic consultant but is official lab tests widely known in the market.

Blah, Blah, also read the acoustic report. There is no natural ventilation via the windows- see the extract below.

6.5.2 Ventilation

The levels of noise at the site preclude the use of natural ventilation in any of the residences as

even acoustically attenuated trickle events will result in the internal noise criteria being

exceeded. Every dwelling will therefore be mechanically ventilated. The inherent sound

associated with mechanical ventilation should help to provide some beneficial masking of

noise ingress from outside.

[Blah Blah]

Thanks for pointing that out LondonMix.

Mechanical ventilation is what exactly? It's just a fan isn't it? And what that seems to say is that the noise of a fan will mask external sound?

In the heat of summer, that won't be enough to ventilate I think.

[LondonMix]

Again, I'm not saying there is nothing to be concerned about (I've already listed my concerns elsewhere) but if you are really that worried about this application, I strongly recommend taking 1-2 hours and actually reading through the proposals and information (this isn't directed to anyone in particular). I know most people don't have the time but if you are going to spread information online about what you think is wrong, I think its important to at least invest that amount understanding what is going on.

If the community want a good outcome, engaging from an informed position is always necessary. That way you can actually influence the things that need to be changed rather than wasting community energy raising comments to Southwark and questions at the engagement event that can be easily dismissed by the council and the developer.

Make no mistake, it is very apparent Southwark back this application so objections need to be relevant and focused if you actually want to influence anything about the final outcome.

[DaveR]

So now everybody's calmed down a bit, and actually considered the facts, some proper issues emerge that ought to be addressed during the planning process e.g. business continuity for existing traders, and soundproofing etc. to ensure future survival of the music venue. And the anti campaign as first launched and lauded here is exposed for the comedy spartist crap that (unfortunately) we've come to expect from everyone for whom gentrification is a dirty word. Ironically, largely those people who moved in to the neighbourhood during the first wave of gentrification i.e. when it was cheap, but now profess to hate the very thought, now it's expensive.

[Blah Blah]

Good point Dave. I just think, given that Rye Lane is a retail business area, that buisness space throughout the building would be more appropriate. Instead of flats there could be affordable office rental space. I'll admit that I don't know anything about rents and space availability in Rye Lane from a business perspective, so don't know if it's a daft idea or not.

[LondonMix]

Blah Blah-- I don't know exactly what they have in mind for the mechanical ventilation. Probably a full HVAC system which is common in modern developments. Air handling units circulating fresh air into the building and removing stale are likely to be installed as part of the over all mechanical engineering plan system.

They aren't using the HVAC system for acoustic insulation though. They are saying the white noise these systems make (think about the quiet noise in an office building or NYC condo) as part of their mechanical action will help cover up some of the ambient noise from outside. Even without this though, the facade and glazing specification meet guidelines in terms of noise intrusion.

If someone made a noise complaint (let's say they are super extra sensitive), the council would have to come and measure the noise penetration. The requirements are not zero so as long as the systems work as designed the complaint wouldn't be actionable. The noise team actually bring very sophisticated noise measuring equipment with them. I've had to make a noise complaint in past!

[LondonMix]

Actually, most if not all of the properties have balconies so despite what the noise report states I suppose natural ventilation is possible. I'm not sure how the noise authorities would treat a noise complaint by someone who has the option for mechanical ventilation but chooses to open their balcony instead?

Anyone ever worked on an issue like this? That might be something to raise with the developer at the questions evening.

[ed_pete]

Blah Blah - take a look at the attached. Actually a lot of the nearby premises on Rye Lane are commercial with residential above so they are hardly setting a precedent.

 

[Jeremy]

Yep... flats above high street shops is the norm in London, I thought?

[JohnL]

I'm above commercial - you do get the odd mouse too - they climb walls :)

When I open my window the noise from Rye Lane is pretty loud - a family might not like it at all.

Being single I'm quite happy.

[LondonMix]

Yeah, the acoustic report said that on the facade facing Rye Lane the traffic noise is so load you it overwhelm the sound of the music even on a club night! In reality the noise pollution from the trains and traffic will be so loud I doubt anyone in that building will ever open their windows.