Jump to content

luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!


Recommended Posts

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here's an extract from one of the Protected

> Frontages maps.

>


...

>

> 133 Rye Lane is fully a "Protected Frontage" (as

> is Station Arcade). I don't think the red line can

> be gerrymandered to provide a Bussey Building

> passage.

>

> John K


The planning application makes mention of an "easement" between Rye Lane and the Bussey Building. Is this the same as a right of way? Would this predate any elevations that fall within a Protected Frontage designation?

Seriously ? Do you really imagine that the developers have spent what I cannot believe would be less than a couple of million quid on a building and all the associated development plans without having gone through the legal fine print? Good luck to you John but I think you just wasted ?3.


In any event, the developers seem more than happy to maintain (and enhance) the passageway between Rye Lane and Bussey/Copeland and that passageway looks to be integral to the building, so I would suggest that it has always been there.

It happens. And yes, developers' lawyers do read the small print. Some are chancers too, but there is no evidence of this here.


You should not jump to conclusions. I did not spend ?3, but I might be tempted to do so for 135 Rye Lane.


Does anyone know what happened to the putative Grade II listing application for the Khan's building?


You can suggest something about the "passageway" or you could obtain the evidence from the Title Plan for ?3. I prefer evidence to unfounded suggestions. Did you read how the "passageway" is classified by the Valuation Office Agency?


John L


Whoops. That should read John K

Why do you think this would involve gerrymandering? The passage to the Bussey Building (Bussey Alley) is a covered arcade. What exactly would you expect to see on the red outline to indicate its existence within the frontage?


Looking at that extract quickly none of the arches or arcades in the area are delineated any differently than solid buildings so why do you think this treatment is unusual as it concerns 133 Rye Lane?


The map doesn't immediately indicate anything about the legitimacy of the arcade one way or another. That's why I'm finding this conversation a bit hard to follow. Apologies if I'm being thick! I'm just snatching quick looks at work.


ETA: The post I was responding to seems to have disappeared... I should have quoted it :)

ed_pete Wrote:

> In any event, the developers seem more than happy

> to maintain (and enhance) the passageway between

> Rye Lane and Bussey/Copeland and that passageway

> looks to be integral to the building, so I would

> suggest that it has always been there.


Yes it has been there since it was built in 1908, and there are rights of way through the passageway to the Copeland Park site which includes the Bussey Building, and 133 Rye Lane has rights of way through Copeland Park. Copeland Park including the Bussey Building is in one private ownership, and 133 Rye Lane building is in another private ownership. Khan's Bargain store and Holdron's Arcade are also part of Copeland Park.


We know this because Peckham Vision grew out of the campaign in 2005-2009 to save, from demolition for a tram depot, the large 5-6 acre site which included all the Rye Lane frontage from the railway bridge to Bournemouth Road and then all of Copeland Park, including the Bussey Building, and everything beyond to Brayards Road and Consort Road. Peckham Vision has worked with the Copeland Park owners, and the CLF Art Caf?, for the last 10 years - a constructive working relationship between a local community action group and a major property owner, and also with the CLF a key part of the evolving cultural hub.


Peckham Vision's shop in Holdron's Arcade 135a Rye Lane is the property owner's acknowledgment of the work the community through Peckham Vision has contributed to enabling Copeland Park as a cultural quarter to evolve. The shop is open on Tuesday and Saturday afternoons between 2-4pm, and at other times ad hoc (we are dependent on volunteers - if you would like to help let us know!). You can always see the information displays every day. Please drop in to find out more about 133 Rye Lane, and also the other major developments and other changes in the town centre.


Some relevant links:

PV Facebook news about 133 Rye Lane ?

* https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/photos/a.373677405988462.83282.373651479324388/1024459707576892/?type=3&theater

* https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/posts/1026680607354802

* https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/posts/1028086137214249

Peckham Vision - http://www.peckhamvision.org

Cross River Tram - http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Cross-River_Tram

Tram Depot concerns - http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Cross-River_Tram#Concerns_about_Tram_Depot_plans

Tram depot plans - http://www.peckhamvision.org/wiki/Tram_depot_proposals

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do you think this would involve gerrymandering?


Probably Using the same meaning as in Florida.


Adjusting boundaries for political or financial advantage.


Someone from Peckham Vision may be able to explain the "adjustment" to the Holly Grove Conservation Area that happened a few years ago.


John K

Eileen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Yes it has been there since it was built in 1908,

> and there are rights of way through the passageway

> to the Copeland Park site which includes the

> Bussey Building, and 133 Rye Lane has rights of

> way through Copeland Park.


From 1970 to 1992 (and perhaps later) the "Bussey Building" staff used the drive-way under 1-15 Bournemouth Road to go to and from work.


John K

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Eileen,

> Three things:

> Is there any evidence about the "right of way"?

>

yes the owners have all the documentation.


> Does the plan for 133 include a flying freehold

> over 135?

>

I have heard that expression but don't know any details.


> Who owns 135a Rye Lane?

>

Copeland Park are the owners as they are also of the building at 135 Rye Lane.

Thanks Eileen.


I guess we will not get to see whether there is a "right of way", or "easement", or an informal arrangement. Do you know anyone who has seen the documents or are the Peckham Vision People taking the existence of a "right of way" on trust?


Flying freeholds are not common in our area. Maybe the best known near you is the part of the East Dulwich Tavern over "Ralon".


Ownnership details as presented of the buildings do not seem to make sense. Only a "person" can own a property. Is "Copeland Park" a "legal person". If so, at least minimal details should be in the public domain.


Flying freeholds are not common in our area. Maybe the best known near you is the part of the East Dulwich Tavern over "Ralon".


There is a fair amount of misrepresentation going on. The most recent shown to me is the 17-13 November Time Out article written by Tristan Parker who interviewed Mickey Smith, here credited as "CLF creative director".


I hope your arm is now fully recovered.


Regards.


John K

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 135 Rye Lane is "owned" by RJK PROPERTIES LIMITED.


yes who trade as Copeland Park. Apologies for not being specific on this. For our current purposes they are all the same.

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Eileen.

>

> I guess we will not get to see whether there is a

> "right of way", or "easement", or an informal

> arrangement. Do you know anyone who has seen the

> documents or are the Peckham Vision People taking

> the existence of a "right of way" on trust?

>

Yes we know the owners, have worked with them for 10 years, they have the papers and we have had no need to check them. Life is too short John. Why is it important in this case when no one is querying the ownership and rights of way?

>

> Ownnership details as presented of the buildings

> do not seem to make sense. Only a "person" can own

> a property. Is "Copeland Park" a "legal person".

> If so, at least minimal details should be in the

> public domain.

>

This is the trading name. You have identified the company name in yr other post.

>

> There is a fair amount of misrepresentation going

> on. The most recent shown to me is the 17-13

> November Time Out article written by Tristan

> Parker who interviewed Mickey Smith, here credited

> as "CLF creative director".

>

What do you see as misrepresentation?


> I hope your arm is now fully recovered.

>

Partially, thank you. It is a long haul.

  • 2 weeks later...

Response came last night. Developers dropped their proposals for residential and extension of the building upwards and downwards, withdrew the planning application and declared they want to work with local businesses and community for the longer term non-residential future of the building. See here for more info: https://www.facebook.com/PeckhamVision/posts/1033755866647276


Vindication of community working together. Welcome to collaborative property developers...

  • 3 years later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • I like empanadas. I don't think Chango is a massive chain - it's got a few stores all in London I believe (stand to be corrected if I've got that wrong). I don't see a problem with them opening on the Lane personally. I really like Chacarero, but that doesn't mean that they should be immune from competition - if they're successful and open a couple more stores, are we then meant to stop supporting them for being a 'chain'?  That opening post does sound a lot like marketing spiel though. Is the OP perhaps connected to the new business I wonder?
    • According to what I can see online, Dynamic Vines and Cave de Bruno sell totally different kinds of wine to each other.  Dynamic Vines  "work with independent winemakers who produce outstanding wine using sustainable practices in the vineyard and minimal intervention in the cellar".  Cave de Bruno specialises in French wines and spirits from small independent producers. So two different USPs, and no doubt two different but overlapping customer bases who can afford these wines. Probably different again to the people mainly  shopping for wine at Majestic or the Co op. On the other hand, the two empanada shops appear on the face of it to be selling virtually identical products. But time will tell, won't it? Let's see how they are both doing in - say - a couple of years' time. Impossible, of course, to compare that with how they would have done if there had been only one of them. I just feel more  sorry for the original one than for  the one which can apparently already afford to have a number of shops in places like Mayfair and Highgate. I'm tempted to buy something there every week, and I don't even like that kind of pastry 🤣
    • Not only can he turn olive oil into Vermouth, but also water into a wine. A true miracle worker.  I wouldn't say a wine shop sells a wide variety of things - and there are two right next to each other.  And once upon a time, upmarket pizza shops were very specific. So were burritos etc. These Argentinian cornish pasties are clearly becoming mainstream; we should consider ourselves lucky to be witnessing this exciting upward trend within our lifetimes and on OUR HIGH STREET. We can tell our grandkids that we remember when there was no internet and no empanadas.  I'm sure that if the family empanada people have a good business head, they'll be able to ride this wave of competition, just like Bruno has. 
    • Very economical. Are you available for events? I've got a gathering of 5000 coming up soon. What could you knock up with two little fishes and five loaves of bread? Cod in breadcrumbs? Fish finger sandwiches? Spanish-style croquetas de bacalao with a Romesco sauce? It's BYOB for beer, so there's no need to worry about that and I've managed to do an unbelievable deal on water and wine. Drop me a DM on here or ask for Dave or Jesus (pronounced 'Hay-Zooze') in The Herne, left hand side of the bar.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...