Rememberance

[tog_in_sox]

Brendan, thanks for sharing your past to qualify your standpoint. The best hope we have is to re-engage in the political process and find representatives who will engage us to shape a more moral and collaborative society. That's not to say we shouldn't be prepared to defend ourselves with utmost might or indeed seek to defend those who cannot defend themselves. It's the folly and the grandstanding that we should forsake.

Santerme, again well said.

We mostly held our silence at work today although I was tempted to tell one chattering colleague to belt up, she was old enough to know better.

My heart sinks in the knowledge that we will see more fallen returned in the days ahead, I just hope that their sacrifice and that of those who return less than whole will bring a revival of the electorate and we will take back our Parliament from all the sitting tenants.

[iaineasy]

I was working on my own laying a patio, and listening to the service on radio 4, I had a 2 minutes silence. The difference between the war remembered on armistice day and wars now are that we lost a couple of million soldiers, thats worth remembering in my opinion, wars will never be fought that way again. Is Afghanistan really a war when we look at it in the horrifying terms of ww1 or ww2? Not really in my book, its an occupation and to be frank we should be out of there as if we were, our soldiers would not be dying. Are we safer for them dying? not sure about that. But this year there are posters all over the place stating that we should give rememberance(and money)for the forces in Afghanistan etc. I find that troubling, whilst I feel for anyone who lost family on both sides in Afghanistan should we be there? And why are we forced to give in aid of the soldiers in this conflict when it seems to be of no benefit to us for them to be there?

[????]

because it's not about the cause it's about the sacrifice

[brum]

Whilst I understand and agree to some extent on your views about the conflict Ian, its the politicians who put our soldiers in Afghanistan. The soldiers are doing the best they can in terrible circumstances. As Quids said, its about their sacrifice. I believe that we need to support them regardless whether we agree or disagree with the reasons for them being there. Its because they are our sons and daughters out there and thank heavens for them!

[iaineasy]

doesn't the cause have to be worth the sacrifice? Hitler invading us was certainly worth the sacrifice, militants are probably More likely to bomb us because we are there not less. To my mind remembrance day should be about the great wars and the real sacrifice made by those men then because it seems the current campaign takes away from that.

edited to say I certainly do support the troops, but not I am afraid the war.

[????]

On that basis, which I think is entirely wrong, the nobility of the cause of the First World War is highly questionable. Just because the scale of casualities is far less in more recent conflict doesn't alter or diminish the individual sacrifices and I think they are worth remembering. Arguing about the reasons and effectiveness of our forces being there is entirely valid but nothing to do with Remeberance Day IMO

[iaineasy]

Just because the scale of casualities is far less in more recent conflict doesn't alter or diminish the individual sacrifices and I think they are worth remembering.

I agree.I never said they were not. My point was I find the current poster campaign troubling because it detracts from the historic value of the other wars which were IMO definately necessary ,I have no doubt of that, but alot of people don't believe the current wars are necessary and there for it raises questions which possibly shouldn't be raised when remembering the dead like why are we involved in these modern conflicts, are those questions not best left alone over armistice? So why publicise them now with giant posters everywhere?

[KateW]

iaineasy wrote:

And why are we forced to give in aid of the soldiers in this conflict when it seems to be of no benefit to us for them to be there?

We aren't forced to give aid for the soldiers; the poster campaign is completely about voluntary giving. And I echo what brum says - it's the politicians that put our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and if you want to vent, vent your frustrations at them rather than the men and women who are sent out to war without proper equipment. It makes me sick to think that MP's have claimed millions on expenses and yet they are quite happy to send our soldiers out to fight in wars which have dubious motives, yet they consistently slash the defence budget, meaning our soldiers don't have the necessary equipment to do their jobs. I speak with a husband in the army who has done tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia etc etc and a brother-in-law who is in Afghanistan at the moment.

Warfare is different to what it was in WW1 yet it doesn't mean that the sacrifices made by soldiers today are any less worthy of our rememberance.

[computedshorty]

?

[Santerme]

KateW Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> iaineasy wrote:

>

> And why are we forced to give in aid of the

> soldiers in this conflict when it seems to be of

> no benefit to us for them to be there?

>

> We aren't forced to give aid for the soldiers; the

> poster campaign is completely about voluntary

> giving. And I echo what brum says - it's the

> politicians that put our soldiers in Iraq and

> Afghanistan and if you want to vent, vent your

> frustrations at them rather than the men and women

> who are sent out to war without proper equipment.

> It makes me sick to think that MP's have claimed

> millions on expenses and yet they are quite happy

> to send our soldiers out to fight in wars which

> have dubious motives, yet they consistently slash

> the defence budget, meaning our soldiers don't

> have the necessary equipment to do their jobs. I

> speak with a husband in the army who has done

> tours in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia etc etc

> and a brother-in-law who is in Afghanistan at the

> moment.

>

> Warfare is different to what it was in WW1 yet it

> doesn't mean that the sacrifices made by soldiers

> today are any less worthy of our rememberance.

Nicely put!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I've received the names of three soldiers from A Company 4 Rifles. If you would like to send them a parcel of goodies, please PM me and I'll give you a name and address.

Otherwise, here is an organisation which will happily receive parcels for unnamed soldiers and pass them on care packages. They also have a list of suggested items and highlights things which are prohibited. Inland postage costs will have to be paid.