Rugby matters

[rendelharris]

I agree I guess, maybe I was a bit dazzled by his exceeding my expectations for him, which were very low. Bit left-field but is it worth considering Jack Nowell at 15? For me he simply hasn't the pace for a top-class wing, but he can catch, tackle and is an excellent counter-attacking runner in broken field play. He's played fullback for the Chiefs on occasion.

[Mick Mac]

Yes - I like Jack Nowell, but he's not Welsh, so can't play.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well, I was dead wrong about Williams, he played

> a

> > blinder.

>

> Disagree to an extent.

>

> For all the brilliance of starting the move for

> that amazing try, and some other breaks shared

> with Watson, Williams was poor under the high ball

> from start to finish, and has been throughout the

> tour. I still think he shouldn't be playing.

>

> Specifically he missed the simple catch that lead

> to the NZ second half try, the one that killed the

> game. We are missing Rob Kearney and arguably Mike

> Brown under the high ball. Without an effective

> high ball catcher, Conor Murray's box kicks are

> handing over possession to the ABs, chasing those

> seemed to be William's job last Saturday.

Apparently he took a knock just before that (and had on a huge bandage

around his head (from a separate incident) - not best for seeing the ball).

Our style of play seems abrasive - so against the All Blacks (who are tough)

we pick up injuries (Gatland likes this style)

[Mick Mac]

JohnL Wrote:

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>

> Apparently he took a knock just before that (and

> had on a huge bandage

> around his head (from a separate incident) - not

> best for seeing the ball).

>

OK - But it didn't spare Ronan O Gara being blamed even now for the Lions' series loss to SA eight years ago. Amd he was only on the pitch for about 15 mins at the end of the deisive second test, bleeding, bandaged, possibly concussed.

It's a tough school.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/jul/26/lions-tour-o-gara-south-africa

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > Apparently he took a knock just before that

> (and

> > had on a huge bandage

> > around his head (from a separate incident) -

> not

> > best for seeing the ball).

> >

> OK - But it didn't spare Ronan O Gara being blamed

> even now for the Lions' series loss to SA eight

> years ago. Amd he was only on the pitch for about

> 15 mins at the end of the deisive second test,

> bleeding, bandaged, possibly concussed.

>

> It's a tough school.

> https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/jul/26/lion

> s-tour-o-gara-south-africa

Yes - remember that well - There shouldn't really be

this blame game (it's like every time England get

knocked out of a major tournament).

It's the All Blacks in New Zealand - the chances of

winning were never high. Gatland will take the main

part of any blame I think (hope it doesn't wreck him)

[Alan Medic]

Well the good news is they haven't lost yet. I'm unsure who is to blame. Plenty of individual mistakes by players and some by management but the AB's are just very very good. Mind you they do target players and Murray could have picked up a nasty injury. When they beat Ireland in Dublin after losing in Chicago,Ireland had to replace 3 players before halftime if memory serves me correctly. One was an awful late hit.

[Mick Mac]

Not a blame game - but as we can still win, it's worth pointing out what people did wrong as well as right.

Cos' Gatland reads the forum and will listen.

[Alan Medic]

I'm must say I'm surprised by Jones being selected and wonder how Farrell will go in the centre. Will they not miss Teo to keep Sonny Bill quiet?

[rendelharris]

I agree, I thought Lawes had done more than enough to come in alongside Itoje, and I really don't think a Sexton/Farrell 10 and 12 has enough beef or authority to deter rampaging Blacks. The snippet I caught on the radio this morning had Gatland extolling the virtue of having a right and left footed kicking partnership - handy, for sure, but if that's the best reason you've got...I'm afraid I can see this selection being twenty down at the half. Hope I'm wrong but really doesn't feel right to me.

This from Gerry Guscott on the BBC website: "If I was opposite Farrell and Sexton I'd think all my Christmases had come at once and the All Blacks will think exactly the same thing."

[JohnL]

Pinning some hopes on the ref having an NH interpretation (if you believe in that).

But to win that sort of match the forwards need to have the game of their lives :)

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Not a blame game - but as we can still win, it's

> worth pointing out what people did wrong as well

> as right.

>

> Cos' Gatland reads the forum and will listen.

Hansen & Gatland to have beer shock

'Hansen added: "I read somewhere where I lashed out at Warren Gatland. I haven't lashed out at Warren Gatland at all. I have got a lot of respect for him, I am looking forward to having a beer with him and a chuckle about life.'

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/blacks-boss-steve-hansen-hits-13254981

[Mick Mac]

For me Hansen made a serious jibe at Gatland's patriotism. You know we don't do those sort of things in NZ....which given the respect Hansen has, won't do anything for Gatland's popularity in NZ long term. A Kiwi questioning the ethics of the national team.

[JohnL]

I notice later in the same article "England head coach Eddie Jones is in town to see how the men in red get on against the All Blacks"

Well

[JohnL]

Well Done Lions.

Last weeks Ref (acting as assistant) to this weeks Ref "Are you sure that's a red card". It's another Frenchman next week.

[Alan Medic]

They took their time bit it was worth waiting for. Sean O'Brien has been cited for I think a straight arm tackle. Hearing is this morning.

[rendelharris]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> They took their time bit it was worth waiting for.

> Sean O'Brien has been cited for I think a straight

> arm tackle. Hearing is this morning.

Think it was a swinging arm as he joined the ruck - as far as I can recall it looked careless rather than malicious, a yellow if the ref had seen it.

Great match and well done Lions - still think that last penalty was a bit harsh though, if the person receiving a pass jumps a few inches in the air when you're already committed to the tackle it's hardly the same as upending a catcher under a high ball. If I were still playing I'd jump in the air every time I took a pass, secure in the knowledge that anyone who hit me would be penalised! Still, makes for a cracking match next weekend.

Wonder what it means for Sonny Bill? I was watching with a Kiwi former teammate who played at a good level over there, he reckoned that would be it, he'll be seen as having let the shirt down and won't be asked again, might have to go back to league. First Kiwi sent off since 1967, first ever on New Zealand soil, apparently. Thought it was a bit harsh initially but multiple replays made it pretty clear...good to see a ref with the strength to go straight red instead of yellow and a citing.

[Alan Medic]

I think the harsh pen was due to the ref following the letter of the law which he was obliged to do.Perhaps the law needs to be tweaked a bit.

[rendelharris]

Definitely - I mean technically if one's in mid-stride one's in the air, does that mean the tackler has to time each hit to connect precisely as one's foot touches the ground? I think I'd probably change it to only for receiving kicks - anyone taking a pass, even a poor one like yesterday, is not going to be high enough off the ground to be upended and come down head first, which is what the law is there to stop.

[Alan Medic]

Taking someone out in a line out is dangerous too. So not just for receiving kicks I think.

[rendelharris]

Fair point, yes. Just not for an ordinary open field runner who happens to jump when receiving a pass! As Kieran Reid said to the ref yesterday, does that mean next time I've got the ball, if I jump in the air they can't tackle me?

[Alan Medic]

O'Brien cleared. Good news for Lions. Cut down on pens conceded and they're in with a good chance.

[rendelharris]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> O'Brien cleared. Good news for Lions. Cut down on

> pens conceded and they're in with a good chance.

Got to drop Vunipola, man's an idiot - not only was he lucky not to be binned before he was but now there's video of him doing the one thing that's really taboo: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/30/lionsmako-vunipola-explains-off-the-ball-incident-first-test/

Time for McGrath to start.

[pebs]

Cracking game - fear the ABs will put 20 on the Lions next weekend though ...Eden park 'n all that ..

[JohnL]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > O'Brien cleared. Good news for Lions. Cut down

> on

> > pens conceded and they're in with a good

> chance.

>

> Got to drop Vunipola, man's an idiot - not only

> was he lucky not to be binned before he was but

> now there's video of him doing the one thing

> that's really taboo:

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/30/

> lionsmako-vunipola-explains-off-the-ball-incident-

> first-test/

>

> Time for McGrath to start.

To be fair Gatlands words were ...

"If I was physically dominated by the All Blacks then I'd do something about it"

Vunipola (and some of the others) did something about it - just went a bit too far - but it's hard to rein it in once you let it out.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/mako-vunipola-hopes-to-prove-gatland-wrong-in-second-test-1.3138892

Gatland knew exactly what he was unleashing.

[JohnL]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Alan Medic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > O'Brien cleared. Good news for Lions. Cut down

> on

> > pens conceded and they're in with a good

> chance.

>

> Got to drop Vunipola, man's an idiot - not only

> was he lucky not to be binned before he was but

> now there's video of him doing the one thing

> that's really taboo:

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/30/

> lionsmako-vunipola-explains-off-the-ball-incident-

> first-test/

>

> Time for McGrath to start.

He would have been pinged if he didn't so he did - don't know really how much it hurt (it could just have been symbolic of not letting go of the binding rather than a grab, squeeze and twist)

Edit: Anyway it seems if Franks minded he's biding his time