Rugby matters

[Help-Ma-Boab]

I'm off on a somewhat niche rugby trip next week. Head to Cyprus to watch them play Croatia in European Tier 3 match...nephew playing for Cyprus so a few of us headed over for the weekend. Bit of sun and rugby.

[????]

Tough group for England (again)

[rendelharris]

Absolutely exactly what they said they didn't want...but England aren't there for second place, you want to win you've got to beat them all! I'd say the biggest worry is having to play the Pumas, not so much for the result as how much injury damage they could do, especially up front - also it looks like either Samoa or Tonga will fill out the group, same applies. Hopefully when they draw up the fixtures one of those matches could be the last with England already qualified so some key players could be rested.

I'm thinking Messrs Mick Mac and Medic must be pleased!

[Mick Mac]

World Cup 2007, we had that same group, with France and Argentina. We got dumped out.

As the best team in the world, or thereabouts, England should have no problems of course.

I'd say Ireland will be happy yes, avoiding all three southern hemisphere teams.

Quite nice that NZ and SA are in the same group, to batter sevens shades of sh1t out of each other early doors.

[JohnL]

Sorry had to laugh as England got the "group of death" - France and Argentina - they still should win that.

World Rugby seemed to find it funny too - or their twitter account did.

Wales have Australia (again) and Georgia

[rendelharris]

Well you you were never going to get NZ or Aus, being in Band 1, but still a pretty nice draw.

We are the second best team in the world, the numbers say so so it must be true...the fact that in our last match we lost to No.4...

[TheCat]

The thing is that 2 years is a long time in international rugby. So its pretty hard to know what the teams will be like (with the exception of the All Blacks, who will no doubt have at least 3 new 'wunderkids' who we havent even heard of today yet).

Just imagine if these were the pools based on 2015 RWC form (i.e. only 2 years ago)....

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well you you were never going to get NZ or Aus,

> being in Band 1, but still a pretty nice draw.

>

> We are the second best team in the world, the

> numbers say so so it must be true...the fact that

> in our last match we lost to No.4...

Awww, bless.

[rendelharris]

I trust you know I was not being entirely serious, MM...

[Mick Mac]

Just a bit of sympathy RH, for the last defeat. No-one likes losing.

[rendelharris]

Ah, I'm over it, honest...well I've stopped crying in public at least...

[Help-Ma-Boab]

I'm sad to report Cyprus lost in the last 5 minutes against Croatia. Relegated a tier in Division 3 Europe South. They will bounce back.

I see The Cherrytree is showing Lions Games. I'm around for 1st Test. Second Test in Scotland for my nieces wedding. The entire local 1st 15 and possibly some internationals are going(unless called up for Lions) my niece is worried for her wedding day....

[????]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Absolutely exactly what they said they didn't

> want...but England aren't there for second place,

> you want to win you've got to beat them all! I'd

> say the biggest worry is having to play the Pumas,

> not so much for the result as how much injury

> damage they could do, especially up front - also

> it looks like either Samoa or Tonga will fill out

> the group, same applies. Hopefully when they draw

> up the fixtures one of those matches could be the

> last with England already qualified so some key

> players could be rested.

>

> I'm thinking Messrs Mick Mac and Medic must be

> pleased!

Yes, agree Rendel. It's not just the quality of the opposition it's the physical nature of those teams and encounters which will stretch England and disadvantage them in the KO stages (if they get there, unlike last time :)).

[Alan Medic]

This is the team for the 1st test as selected by Ian McGeechan and Luke Fitzgerald.

[Alan Medic]

From the above team I reckon 1/2penny should be in. Good defensively and top goalkicker. Watson to the wing along with Daly. No place for North or Williams.Itoje with Kruis in the 2nd row. George as hooker.

Will Gatland include Sexton? I'd like to see that with Farrell in the centre with Davies. That's 5 changes from the above team I think.

[rendelharris]

I agree with most of that Alan - definitely Halfpenny and Daly in the backs, and Itoje has to play at lock. Still fancy Best at 2 for experience and a cool head. Farrell at 10 for me with Joseph at 12, Te'o at 13.

[Alan Medic]

The only thing about Rory Best which has probably cost him a place is that his line out throwing sometimes lets him down.

[Mick Mac]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The only thing about Rory Best which has probably

> cost him a place is that his line out throwing

> sometimes lets him down.

Agreed. I don't think he'll be in the test team. Also agree on Williams, s/be omitted.

[Alan Medic]

Great match. Well the 1st fifty minutes anyway. I thought the Lions were less than equal in the forwards so any changes may come there for the 2nd test. I don't think AWJ will be selected ahead of MI. I can see Henderson making the 23 at least. I also suspect Best is in with a chance as Stephen Ferris brought up on the TV. Maybe SW will be picked ahead of POM.

Any thoughts on changes?

[rendelharris]

Well, I was dead wrong about Williams, he played a blinder. I'd want Best to start, and maybe Cole - he's not that creative but he's solid as a rock. Itoje on the pitch from the start...Joseph in the centres? Warburton from the start as well maybe, I think he's better as a solid starter than an "impact" sub. Other than that, you know, they did a pretty good job really, just outclassed by the best team on the planet by a good couple of furlongs.

[Alan Medic]

Hard to grasp Gatland bringing in these Welsh/Scots for the mid-week games and then not using them. If he couldn't foresee the negative reaction it would cause someone should have told him. As it is he made things worse by only using them if he had to, and flogging to death some players by playing them for 80 minutes a few days before a test match. At least he took Lawes off but Henderson on that form should at least be in the 23.

[rendelharris]

Agree, totally idiotic - he makes a big thing of not being bothered by pressure but clearly some old farts in blazers have had a word about "respecting the shirt, old boy..." If someone who wouldn't otherwise have done gets to play a half for the Lions, does it really matter, and if it saves players for the tests...ridiculous fuss, it made sense to call up players who had short journeys (especially when we saw how jetlagged the Lions looked at the start of the tour) and it's not as if they were called out of the local pub team - all established internationals. Cole and Marler, to name but two, looked absolutely shagged by the end of yesterday's thriller; now if a prop or two gets crocked in training before Saturday Gatland'll have to think about putting poorly recovered players in the 23, all because of some myth about "respecting the shirt."

[JohnL]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hard to grasp Gatland bringing in these

> Welsh/Scots for the mid-week games and then not

> using them. If he couldn't foresee the negative

> reaction it would cause someone should have told

> him. As it is he made things worse by only using

> them if he had to, and flogging to death some

> players by playing them for 80 minutes a few days

> before a test match. At least he took Lawes off

> but Henderson on that form should at least be in

> the 23.

He said at the beginning of the tour "the Wales squad

is nearby" and I guessed how it would pan out.

The 4 Welsh guys have not played and have no Lions number

I think both Scottish guys have a number as they did a

few minutes.

Edit: I think however the Welsh 4 knew what was what.

[JohnL]

French Ref(s) next - so my (still held) belief about interpretations of laws at the breakdown can be tested.

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, I was dead wrong about Williams, he played a

> blinder.

Disagree to an extent.

For all the brilliance of starting the move for that amazing try, and some other breaks shared with Watson, Williams was poor under the high ball from start to finish, and has been throughout the tour. I still think he shouldn't be playing.

Specifically he missed the simple catch that lead to the NZ second half try, the one that killed the game. We are missing Rob Kearney and arguably Mike Brown under the high ball. Without an effective high ball catcher, Conor Murray's box kicks are handing over possession to the ABs, chasing those seemed to be William's job last Saturday.