Rugby matters

[Mick Mac]

That's loyalty for you. Hopefully he's not tainted as indeisciplined. The ABs will be pointing out any minor indiscretions to the ref I'm sure/milking any mistimed contact.

[Alan Medic]

20 points rendel? Is that prediction game ploy?

[rendelharris]

Aha, well...think the only way I can be caught is by someone going for the opposite result...but am I trying to sell a dummy?

What one thinks will happen and what one wants to happen...I had ?10 on Australia to win the RWC final in 2003, on the basis that if England won I wouldn't care about losing, if we lost I'd have a small consolation to help drown my sorrows!

[Alan Medic]

I'd have to say the glass is half full and not half empty. The AB's could have been out of sight at half time.

[Alan Medic]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Aha, well...think the only way I can be caught is

> by someone going for the opposite result..

There was another option rendel ☺

[Help-Ma-Boab]

If only I'd added a Lions Test draw to my Murray and Konta double...

[JohnL]

Gatland vindicated again. He seems to make a habit of it.

Not sure about wearing the clown nose to the press conference :)

[rendelharris]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Aha, well...think the only way I can be caught

> is

> > by someone going for the opposite result..

>

> There was another option rendel ☺

Machiavelli could have taken lessons from you, sir!

[Alan Medic]

Anyone feeling a bit guilty about that pen, not a pen at the end? Well the good news is that Read himself was offside at the re-start according to more than one report I read. Should have been a scrum to the Lions. We woz robbed ref.

[Mick Mac]

Well done AM. :)

[Alan Medic]

Good man Seanie. Say it like it was...........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41342719

[JohnL]

Don't they have post mortems in private for those things.

He must have been peed'd off with Gatland and even more so Howley (I understand Howley annoying people actually)

[Mick Mac]

I'm struggling with whether this reflects well or badly on SOB. I'm guessing it wont be well received

Personally I'm glad he said it, it gives an insight into the haphazard performance in the first test and some improvement thereafter.

Personally I think Sexton not being involved in the first test with his experience, record of success and tactical nouse was a mistake - Itoje being left out was jaw dropping in terms of individual ability

If Gatland and the team listened better as a result of first test failings fair enough, or whether the team took over the coaching as SOB suggests then fine, but there seems no doubt mistakes were rectified after losing the first test. After that its an uphill struggle. And despite achieving a drawn series I think a lot of people felt the Lions were very much second best and could have done better.

[rendelharris]

I think that sort of criticism is best kept in-house. I haven't seen anything that says he raised these concerns at the time (management says he didn't) - if he did and was told to get lost then it's more understandable that he wants to make it public. I wonder if, aged thirty, he has ambitions to go on the SA tour in 2021? Whoever's coach then might well think twice about taking someone who might turn on them afterwards.

[JohnL]

Maybe it's Eddie Butler

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/jul/22/rugbyunion.lionstour20013

Don't think Austin toured again.

[Alan Medic]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/sean-obrien-releases-clarifying-statement-after-interview-criticising-warren-gatland-36157094.html

Doesn't retract anything.To keep something like this in-house I could understand, if there were a house. But this isn't a club or national team. It's his opinion and I would imagine he wrote what a lot of other players thought. Quite refreshing that someone is asked for an opinion and they give an honest one.

[rendelharris]

Hmm. My opinion more closely matches the opinion piece in the same paper: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/comment-sean-obriens-underhand-quotes-must-be-galling-to-warren-gatland-36155798.html

Just because it's not a permanent team doesn't mean the concepts of loyalty and discretion go out the window - if you wouldn't say it publicly about your club or national setup, don't say it about the Lions, I'd say; sorry but I think it's almost a bit cowardly, you won't say it about your team or country as they're your bread and butter, but as you probably won't go on the next tour you feel free to put the boot in. As the piece points out, pointing fingers at individuals is pretty distasteful too. Rather sours a magnificent tour, I think, and anyone who thinks the Lions could have done better with different coaching would be well advised to look at the recent 57-0 mauling of the Saffers!

[Mick Mac]

magnificent tour - I don't think it was. the Lions were lucky. New coach next time please.

[rendelharris]

Lucky they may have been but every match was great to watch and an amazing finish. Not saying the Lions were magnificent, but that it was a magnificent series to watch.

[Mick Mac]

I don't know why but I didn't really get the buzz this time. something was missing for me. being nostalgic about previous ones perhaps.

[rendelharris]

Perhaps Lions lacking a bit in individual brilliance, a BOD or a Robinson type player to really set it alight.

[Alan Medic]

rendelharris Wrote:

anyone who thinks the Lions could

> have done better with different coaching would be

> well advised to look at the recent 57-0 mauling of

> the Saffers!

Billy thinks they would have.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/british-and-irish-lions-sean-obrien-criticism-billy-vunipola-gatland-howley-eddie-jones-a7960136.html

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> magnificent tour - I don't think it was. the Lions

> were lucky. New coach next time please.

Gatland leaves Wales in 2019 - and he's sworn he's headed back to NZ. Howley isn't that good, sorry Howley, Wales need to find a way to get in somebody else.

Probably Jones next time.

[rendelharris]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> anyone who thinks the Lions could

> > have done better with different coaching would

> be

> > well advised to look at the recent 57-0 mauling

> of

> > the Saffers!

>

> Billy thinks they would have.

>

> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-uni

> on/international/british-and-irish-lions-sean-obri

> en-criticism-billy-vunipola-gatland-howley-eddie-j

> ones-a7960136.html

Considering Billy wasn't on the tour I think that's a bit hyperbolic - not to mentioned a bit arse-kissing to his own coach!

[Alan Medic]

Who said forwards were thick?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41449164