mockney piers

I've blamed and despise Blair for many reasons, but even I can't put the death of the British pub at his door (leave alone his putting chairs outside them). It's called change. People just don't like that sort of pub any more. I recommend Beer & Britannia, an Inebriated History of Britain and you'll see that your idea of long-standing tradition hadn't actually been around that long and that it had come about as a result of many changes of our drinking habits and locations over a very long period of time. If you want to go back to basics then we've all got to drink in a church.

Do we have to remind people about Paul Chambers? :-P http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/twitter-joke-led-to-terror-act-arrest-and-airport-life-ban-1870913.html

It's not unique to them of course, just to success. Do you remember all those Newcastle shirts you used to see about 15 years ago, where are they now? I've plenty of mates who are Liverpool fans as they picked up that team in the late 70s early 80s, and to be honest they're pretty shrugged shoulders about it all and will be happier down broadhall way these days. I don't mind cockney reds too much if it was a passionate dad that foisted support on them, it's the glory hunters that wind me up. My poor boy is going to be a hammer even though he'll grow up in Ireland, though I will at least take him to London for a match once or twice a year in a desperate attempt to make my indoctrination stick!!!

"Anyone doing their research proerly would see that they are not a good deal and look for other alternatives to opening/ managing a pub or bar" I quite agree, from what I can tell those that do go for it seem to treat the idea as a romantic one, and it's that naivety that kills them.

moot or not, I for one am very very bored. The sooner the wedding and election are over with the sooner we can move on.

eh? you're deleting your posts without even posting them now?

"I know that breweries hike prices" clearly you don't because it's not breweries. The links between the breweries and pubs were broken by the legislation that gave us the pubcos who produce precisely nothing. The breweries can't hike prices to independents because they'll go elsewhere, it's called competition. If the breweries are offering these services to pubcos (and they will because their purchasing power means the breweries need to offer sweeteners) the savings go to the pubcos and their shareholders, and won't be passed on to the landlords, or indeed the customer (except insofar as the landlord sells beer as a loss leader in order to get custom in and hopefully buy enough food to keep his pub ticking over). And by most pubs do you mean the several thousand which have shut down, or indeed the landlords who are bankrupted by the business model, and the lease sold on to another poor mug. The George Canning is on to it's 3rd tenant in almost as many months. It breaks my heart every time I meet a new one as I know their life's savings will be gone faster than you can say 'it's lovely to meet you, but let's not get too pally eh'. I can only guess you didn't read a word of the linked article. It's worth a read, you might learn something as opposed to assume you know everything (and given your grasp on history and geology I'd definitely not recommend that assumption ;-) ).

Well possibly yes and possibly no silverfox. From my point of view ticking a couple more boxes of stuff i like is no extra hassle than ticking one box, as the hassle is trying to find a point in your day to go to the seemingly peripatetic polling booth in my ward. Plus as I vote in both the Spanish national and Madrid Ayuntamiento elections it's a skill I'm quite used to (the multiple boxes, not the finding the booth as obviously this one is a postal vote). I'm well used to the anarcho-syndicalist tutti-frutti and the happy-world strawberry flavours not having a cat-in-hell's chance despite my mischievous support, but in the case of this country I'm quite sure that my, let's call them the mint ice-cream, party might well have a chance as in the right area (and no, it won't be the awful Ms Harman's constituency sadly) they'll be plenty of people's second preference. To use your analogy, and god knows i'm sick to death of the analogies on here, you may well disappoint a child who didn't want vanilla, but if you are looking after 10 children and have to buy a single tub you're going to buy the least hated flavour aren't you.

"It's simple - even a child who didn't want a vanilla ice-cream, but has ended up with one, knows they don't want a vanilla ice-cream even if the AV camp tells them it's fair." Weird, because that perfectly describes FPTP; I've always ended up with bloody vanilla.

My wallet is very relieved to hear it MM.

here you go: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,101152,103354#msg-103354

djkq, if you have a look at score46's posts passim about the tied pub system, you'll notice that landlords of those pubs either sell beer at an exorbitant rate or as a loss leader, and that the prices you quote are pure fantasy territory for them. Someone independent like Hoopers, or whetherspoons (with its enormous economies of scale allowing them to dictate price) can be as cheap as they can afford. Like most things in this world it ain't black and white and certainly ain't simple. The CPT struggles to survive and seems to be gambling on higher prices for premium products to improve margins, with the obvious consequent risk that it can drive custom away. Though lots of people pointing out that choice of pub and poison isn't necessarily a price led decision. When missus mockers was up the duff and allowed 1 glass of wine a week, she made me take her to the poshest places in town and positively insisted that the glass be expensive as possible, never less than 10 or 15 quid a pop!!

Hang on, that's just cricket, not nonsense, and that's more than captured the Duckworth Lewis method in full flow.

Some fantastic recommendations, thank you all very very much :)

Off to the big appley thing in a little while for a wedding, which coincides with my birthday (21st ... again....). Was hoping the missus and I could find somewhere a bit special, dining-wise, to celebrate, but we really don't know the place at all. The usual websites seem to be throwing up far too many options with the word 'fusion' in the description, making me want to run a mile, so thought I might look for recommendations from you 'orrible lot, which I'm sure will throw up (no pun intended) a much more interesting and eclectic list. Much thankage P

2012!!!

Sir Trevor Brooking insists there is no comparison between the outbreak of suspected weekend Kenny Dalglish the verbal towards Arsene Wenger and Wayne Rooney swore directly into a television camera. Brooking believes it deserves to be spoken in the same way as Rooney diatribe, saying: "It was totally different (Rooney)." Brooking added: "The reaction to the camera (Rooney) was the difference I can understand why the incident in the West Ham game led to action being taken, but does not think there is no comparison .. "I've always been from the West Ham-Manchester United game, I do not think anyone thought it was known that nothing but the right decision." He said: "What we have to do is get all the stakeholders - the Premier League, Football League, [the Association and AML [Agents PFA League Professional Football] Association] - in the same hymnsheet. "In my travels to the grassroots, people said 'you have to improve that sort of thing - and we will try to improve it, but I also think is important from the grassroots to establish its own rules. . If you are running a team, I would think that those involved will set standards. "I think sometimes some other behavior is used as an excuse for not behaving ourselves properly."

I never know whether to report these or enjoy them. There's a surreal poetry about them. A bit like when using google-to translate text to another language then back again can produce some fantastic stuff.

Is anybody else really looking forward to this FA Cup final? Two massively trophy starved clubs who'll be really up for it, rather than the usual 'big' clubs sleepwalking through it with their minds on how they'll be spending their summer? It might help kick the trend of dire yawnfests (with the obvious exception of *that* west ham final (sobs again)). I for one can't wait, come on Stoke*!! *sorry BR, but if it's any consolation I've petty much supported the losing team in roughly every final for the past 30 years**!! **with the obvious exception of Milwall, where i was a neutral wanting neither team to win.

In all fairness whatever the merits or otherwise of the yes campaign, and many of those ststements are rather non-sequitur, they are not claims that supporters on this thread have made. In other words the Times is undermining the argument of the campaign, not of AV itself. And judging by the tactics of the No campaign, pots and kettles spring to mind. Of course old Murdoch doesn't like the idea of AV as getting to be king maker* wont be quite as easy any more. *or at least back the winner, it's usually pretty obvious under FPTP, though he nearly got it wrong in '92 then changed his mind last minute making his king maker claim look even more convincing. He obviously doesn't like this coalition nonsense, so am not surprised the Times is campaigning for a no. Personally if he doesn't like it thats enough for me to vote the other way.

1 bed DKH estate refurbed flat is about ?150k. Not bad for the area in this day and age (mind I paid less than that for a 3 bed flat when I moved here 10 years ago!!)

Mind you, that sort of statement is usually up there with chairman backing his manager to the hilt or the prime minister giving unqualified backing to a minister before the manager/minister decides he needs to spend more time with the family. I'm guessing Bale will be wanting to spend more time in either Manchester, Madrid or Milan.

Well done Stoke, as my second (well, actually 4th team) it was great to see them get to wembley; it will be some small succour after the 'ammers blowing it completely this weekend. I'm off to the championship thread next season (which is much better behaved if alot quieter in all fairness).

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