Marmora Man

LadyDeliah, your point of view seems to be a modish one at present. However, there may come a time when the "left-ish" vote isn't something you want to support anymore. The left-ish tendency of the Blair / Brown years was hardly a highlight of political rule - several underfunded wars and underestimated subsequent death and world turmoil, ever increasing restrictions on the liberty of the people (90 days detention without trial anyone?), embarrasingly "hip" "Cool Britannia" speak that decried anything traditional as out of date. Horrible times. Only FTPT will give the you the opportunity to turf an unsatisfactory government out of power completely. AV will allow a trickle of change with many political faces remaining on stage no matter what the voters want.

Laddy Muck Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > PS: MM, why the citric acid in your recipe? I've > been making the stuff for years without it. > > Cheers. Not sure - just the recipe I was given. Think it's something about it keeping longer?

womanofdulwich Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > thats my recipe! I'm not goign to tell you where I > go, but around the side of sports fields is a good > place.;-) Are you my sister in law?

Having, last year, tasted my German sister-in-law's delicious Elderflower cordial I resolved to make some this year. Served with cold Presecco it makes a good "Bellini" lite. The trees should be in flower shortly (mid May - June) - but where can I find some around South London? If I do find some - can I harvest a couple of bucket load of flowers?? I did wonder whether the Norwood Cemetery might be a good place to try?? For those interested the recipe is: 40 fresh elder flower heads. 2 oranges, rough sliced 2 lemons, also rough sliced 2oz citric acid. 3 pints boiling water 3lb granulated sugar, Instructions: Boil the water and dissolve the sugar in it. Allow it to cool properly. Add the orange and lemon slices to the cool sugar water. Stir in and make sure the citric acid is dissolved. Add the elder flower heads. Cover it up with a lid or cloth and leave it for 48-72 hours. Strain and leave for another 48 hours. Siphon into another tub, leaving the dregs behind. Stir well and then leave for 3-4 hours to settle. Bottle, leaving behind any more dregs.

I always like popping into the original Joe Allen's off Broadway. Not exactly haute cuisine but everything you'd want from an off Broadway bar / cafe. Not as "tired" as Covent Garden's cover version.

David, I don't know about the London Underground or the Fire Brigade - except as a disgruntled customer of one and jaundiced observer of the other, but I do know about the NHS. NHS staff (not workers- there is an almost indistinguishable separation between tiers of employees from junior to senior in every sector within the NHS) have many rights, they are not oppressed or even asked to do anything too challenging in many cases. In most cases all staff from CEO to mortuary cleaner are so protected it is just about impossible to properly discipline or dismiss a poorly performing employee - even for the most severe failure. If a dismissal is achieved - recourse to an Industrial Tribunal will, usually, result in a major payment in recompense. Those who wish to change things are often so worn down by the experience that they become reluctant to even start to tackle difficult issues.

We have been led to believe that Hugenot lives in Singapore and lectures on Management Theory. Wrong! He has been located less than 5 miles from here in Wandsworth, serving the discerning diner.

Just a thought - and no doubt ??? could answer me if he was posting these days but isn't AV rather like going for an each way bet. Not confident enough to plump your all "on the nose" to win you share your preferences among many alternative politicians, secure in the knowledge that one of them will come in and you will have "backed" them. Doesn't really have a huge effect on the race but does affect the betting and odds - or in politics the number of clearly articulated policies that will be delivered by a strong and confident executive.

Roast

It's very simple. If you agree with the protest - strike. If you don't agree - don't strike. Personally, I belive most strikes and union organised action a total waste of time. There was a period in history when Trades Unions were able to achieve significant improvements in conditions and pay for their members using solidarity and the option of strikes as negotiation tactics. Those days are long past - sufficient employment legislation is in place to protect all workers. Unions these days have morphed into activist movements where the interests of union members and the company's customers come in a long way behind political posturing and rhetoric. cf: Bob Crow and RMT Union, The BA dispute, the RCN's recent rhetoric about strikes in protest against Gov't action etc.

I started a thread The Politics of Provision in the early days of this forum back in 2007. The thread was consciously meant to stimulate debate and dispute. It did this successfully, but all participants kept it clean, kept it polite and all enjoyed the craic. It seems to me that the nature and tone of today's debates is darker, less forgiving and more polarised. THis is disappointing, what was once a place for grown up intelligent debate has gone downmarket. It may be why I find myself less and less inclined to join debates and simply use the forum to seek information, buy, sell and lend or borrow goods - but not engage with others. This may also account for the absence of other, early joiners, that have now left us.

I'm experiencing poor connectivity with Virgin too. Their help line is remarkably unhelpful with barely comprehensible spokespersons in Mumbai (or somewhere on the sub continent) simply mouthing standard script from their computer screen. For info their complaints dept address is: Customer cConcn Department Matrix Court Swansea SA7 9AB I like the change of title to "Customer Concern" - a truly ironic (moronic) change. I don't have concerns I am spitting mad and angry - I want to make a complaint.

Hugenot, You must learn to read other's posts before you switch to rant. I did not claim that AV would lead to fascism / Marxism or other "isms" - I suggested that Britain was a country where such extremist views are difficult to take root. Your condescending tone, coupled with implied and explicit abuse toward all anti AV posters does not advance your argument well. To suggest, as you appear to across the sum of your posts on this subject, that opposition to AV is anti democratic is quite ridiculous. Pro AV and anti AV are both perfectly rational political positions to hold - argue the merits of your case, don't insult your opponents and you may persuade others to agree with you. At present in addition to voting NO on 5th May because that is what I genuinely believe is best, but I will be pleased to vote NO, knowing that it wil anger you.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- It is an extreme example, yes, but it does show how the 35% 'significant slice' can sometimes fails to show the complete and utter disagreement of the majority 65%. Can you not see that? Is understanding the wider picture not showing the true 'public will'? It was not meant to be an emotional argument, but one that shows that the Alpha's preferred their own candidate over the Bravo candidate, but they definitely did not want the Omega candidate, for very good reasons. Silverfox has been clouding the issue of 'preference' and 'don't want' - this example makes it clearer which is which. Loz, your many remarkable examples are "proving" nothing. You state that the 2 x 32% voters for Alpha & Bravo definitely didn't want Omega which had scored 35%. Surely in a real political vote under AV the best you could state would be that some, possibly a majority, of either Alpha or Bravo voters preferred Alpha / Bravo somewhat more than they preferred Omega. AV is about ranking candidates it is not, and cannot, be a statement of moral, political or any other kind wish. The reasons behind the ranking will vary considerably - from my mother's approach to politics of "ooh I like him / her - they have nice hair" to the dedicated political geek that has weighed every ounce of every manifesto to the "I'll vote the way my father / class / work colleagues have always voted" with many other varieties. The reality, which neither the YES camp or the NO camp seem prepared to acknowledge is that whatever the outcome of the AV referendum it won't make very much difference. In vast swathes of the country Conservative and Labour politicians will continue to be elected with 50% of the vote at first count - just as they do today under FPTP. Personally, I still adhere to FTPT for simplicity and because it reflects the common decency of this country - where true fascist / marxist / other extremist political views find it very difficult to take hold. There has been a regrettable tendency to regress to the mean over the last 30 years. Very few politicians seem to have the necessary backbone to take decisive action and, more importantly, stick to their decisions. Too much conciliation of noisy minorities leads to unfocussed and weak policies - and I fear AV politics will only exacerbate this tendency. I don't want nice politicians - I want clever, decisive, quick witted politicians who explain clearly and honestly their plans and intentions. AV is unlikely to make politicians more honest - the need to be attractive to all will require a degree of obfuscation. Problems - a few examples where strong policies, clearly state could make a difference. We don't impose proper discipline in school because we must give everyone a chance. We open universities to all, devaluing degrees while at the same time raising their costs, for the same reason. We maintain open borders and weak deportation policies because it's easier than operating strong disciplines. We interfere with internal problems in foreign countries without forethought - and then discover the cost is paid with servicemen's lives in our underfunded and ill equipped armed forces. A strong policy to cut wasteful bureaucracy in the NHS by abolishing PCTs & Health Authorities is put on hold because Nick Clegg wants to be nice. The NHS is at least 10% larger, and more costly, than it needs to be because most NHS managers, and DoH policians / Ministers are scared to discipline the slack and poor workers that abound. AV politicians will change none of my particular concerns - and, regrettably, I doubt that FPTP politicians of today's calibre will either.

Wud agree re LL Carpets - Marmora Mansion is carpeted exclusively by them. An e cellent, flexible and friendly service throughout. Tho' the "measurer upper" can be a tad grumpy.

Been doing this journey for years - M40 / A40 into London - exit for Central London and pass Paddington Station, Lancaster Gate, Marble Arch, Hyde Park Corner, Victoria, Vauxhall Bridge, Oval, Camberwell, Dog Kennel Hill, East Dulwich.

Marmora Son No. 2 reports sighting Rupert Penryn-Jones in East Dulwich Deli today.

?? So huncamunca, you'll be in a sad place?

Hugenot, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. I can't recall any UK government under FPTP being mouth frothing right wing extremists - so your point is poorly made. Equally, a rationalist such as yourself has often argued that others must not put words in your mouth - please don't pt words in other's mouth. My suggestion of weighting the alternative votes was to stimulate debate - mathematically it won't work. However, it is disengenuous to suggest that if I rank 8 candidates in order of preference that I rate them equally, this is patently not the case - otherwise I couldn't rank them. My fear is that AV will pander to the lowest common denominator - offering the electorate unaffordable goodies to win their votes - and bankrupting the country in the process of delivering their foolish commitment. It is not coincidental that Lib Dems are leading the charge toward AV (I know they really wanted proportional representation) as they have a strong history of promising what they cannot deliver - cf Abolishing Tuition Fees. In that case reality and the stronger will of the Conservative part of the Coalition prevailed - but an AV coalition may not have the will.

I will not be in front of a TV, in Westminster, the Mall or anywhere near the "wedding". Weather permitting I intend to be walking sections 8 & 9 of The Capital Ring, a 75m linked circular walk around London that starts and finishes at Woolwich, with a picnic & book in my rucsac, returning home pleasantly tired to a warm bath and a glass of scotch.

Hi James, Spotted your article in SE22 today. Somewhat surprised to read your comment about the issues to be discussed at next Dulwich Community Council quote "the renewed threat of Northcross Road Market operating on Sundays". It seems you have determined the solution before the discussion?

Letter in today's paper "I've just received a flyer from a bunch of comedians asking me to support AV. Is this some kind of joke?"

One drawback of AV is that 2nd / 3rd preference votes are given the same weight as first preference votes. This surely illogical I if I place candidates 1 - 4 in that order, then clearly I value candidate 4 less than I value candidate 1. If, without weighting, candidate 4 wins I am only partially satisfied with his / her election - say 33%. Of we have to have a complicated system, let's have a really complicated system that weights secind preference at 50%, 3rd preference at 33% and 4th preference at 25%. I haven't time to calculate the difference it might make - but if we're talking about fairness this feels fairer than straight AV.

To add my previous post - for this forthcoming vote on AV - there should be a minimum threshold. I'd prefer 50% as a minimum but would settle for 35% - 40%. Otherwise apathy wins and the British Constitution could be changed simply because the issue isn't sufficiently interesting to anyone but a few politco geeks (like me - and other posters on here).

First past the post for me - with two modifications: 1. Voting to be compulsory 2. All ballot papers to have a "none of the above" option - if this option is first in any constituency then the vote is re run.