Marmora Man

batdog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LONG LIVE AUDREY :)) I note the Animal Rights website - given ED prediliction for good meat at William Rose and good fish at Moxton's and great cheese at the Cheese Block you may be on the wrong track. Animals can have no rights - with rights come responsbilities and I have yet to meet an animal that is able to understand or debate this concept. I'm kind to animals but would not keep a pet as it's not right, in my mind, to coop up dogs / cats in London (tho' I harbour murderous thoughts about the cat that uses my garden as a latrine. However, I'm not willing to forego a nice lamb shank, slow cooked belly of pork or aged steak cooked rare.

batdog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LONG LIVE AUDREY :)) I note the Animal Rights website - given ED prediliction for good meat at William Rose and good fish at Moxton's and great cheese at the Cheese Block you may be on the wrong track. Animals can have no rights - with rights come responsbilities and I have yet to meet an animal that is able to understand or debate this concept. I'm kind to animals but would not keep a pet as it's not right, in my mind, to coop up dogs / cats in London (tho' I harbour murderous thoughts about the cat that uses my garden as a latrine. However, I'm not willing to forego a nice lamb shank, slow cooked belly of pork or aged steak cooked rare.

argibargy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Could not agree more - overpriced + snotty staff + > crap food IMHO. What does IMHO mean? Also what does IMO mean? Just want to learn about the language on this forum.

The actual Barclay's building has been revamped inside - when my teenage son went in to open an account a few weeks ago he was told that the Woolwich would close and some staff would be moving across to join the Braclay's team. Barcalys & Woolwich are defintely merging in some form - I keep getting junk mail about it.

Ashtray on a motorbike

I always understood that some fish or at least aquatic beings at some stage, many millennia ago, decided that a land based environment was more interesting than water based. Is that contentious or simply extending the discussion?

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > what happened to his post? I have to say I was a > bit miffed with mamora's suggestion that you can > do what you like, when rules don't apply to you, > and then get off most of the time by chewing up > precious resources! I thought I'd posted a reply to this. Wasn't suggesting flouting all rules and then going to appeal when caught on the 70% probability that Southwark wouldn't pursue. However, I dislike councils using dodgy tactics (including setting a financial target for wardens rather than a compliant target) to create an income stream from parking tickets and therefore believe that, if you feel wronged, appeal. If you do not appeal it only encourages the tendency to dream up yet more revenue raising schemes to hit us all.

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > what happened to his post? I have to say I was a > bit miffed with mamora's suggestion that you can > do what you like, when rules don't apply to you, > and then get off most of the time by chewing up > precious resources! I wasn't proposing anarchy - just that there is a tendency with traffic wardens to ticket anything that stays still for 5 minutes. If you feel you've been unfairly ticketed appeal - by not appealing in such situations it reinforces the money grabbing tendency and tactics. All that said if James parked deliberately in a disabled bay then the ticket (and subsequent fine) was legit. Pay up and take the lumps.

Taking Macroban's earlier point and recent items in the news about charitable giving - how much could the Forum do to raise funds for a worthwhile project. There must be enough management knowledge, technical skills, network contacts among the regular and irregular readers to enable this ED community to achieve something worthwhile if we so chose? In the USA and Canada charitable giving is a way of life (I know they have tax breaks and we don't) - recently spoke to a semi professional fund raiser from Canada who reckons to generate upwards of ?50K per event, things such as hog roats, concerts, sponsored runs, sports matches - he usually manages to rope in a celebrity or two, of which there seem to be many around here. Three points: 1. I have no axe to grind for any particular charity - local schools / hospitals or overseas good causes 2. I would help if someone wanted to kick such a thing off - but am not volunteering to lead anything at this stage 3. UK is, in fact, rather good at charitable giving - 2nd in the world (Economist data) behind the USA - 1.7% of GDP versus 2.4%.

SimonM - I agree that parking on dropped curbs and too close to junctions is a real pain - and do object to it happening in my area. However, would prefer not to see traffic wardens patrolling residential streets - centralised bureaucracy always seems to expand and become something worse. Hence my fears.

In a small row of grungy shops on the junction of Peckham Rye and St Aidans road at the south end of Peckham Rye park (where Peckham Rye becomes Forest Hill Road). Less than a 1 mile from your new flat in the Gardens. Well worth a visit - good beer, good food, friendly service.

Always appeal. 7 times out of 10 if you have a half way decent case Southwark will give up as it costs them far more than the ?60 / ?120 to contest the appeal. On a different note - wardens have been operating in the Therapia / Mundania / Marmora road area, ticketing cars parked alongside the pavement ramps for wheelchairs / prams etc. No signs as yet to make this an illegal parking event but could be the start of traffic warden hell and charges for on street parking in the future.

And 28 days Later with its squel 28 Weeks later. Parts of the latter were shot on the corner of ScutariRoad and Mundania Road - if you look very closely it is possible to see my fence!

Put same message up twice - apols

Fear 'n boozin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > also, a lot of the legislation (the bits that > aren't jerk - in reaction and scope) comes from > implementing European legislation, either new > rules on say, animal welfare, or rules that are > meant to harmonise standards etc accross the > continent. Often good in principle..... But absolutely awful in their implementation ............. Is harmonising standards across the continent a good thing? Beer in steins tastes great in Bavaria - but it's not the same in the Bishop / Herne / CPT etc. Whose standards do we harmonise to? I'd acknowledge technological change needs some "rules" and life, culture, standards do change. But 650 people, working full time + advisors and support staff all looking to create new laws does seem excessive. On the few occasions I've approached my MP they have simply forwarded my letter to quote "the correct department" - if they'd fight for their constituents, not pork barrellling but defending / supporting,and delivering or protecting cleaner streets, good schools, green spaces, local shops I'd be happier with them.

Michael Palaelogus seems to be recommending pork barrel politics as per USA. An MPs role is to represent the people of their constituency in Parliament - not necessarily reflect their views (or we'd just have endless referendums / referenda(?)), just put forward an intelligent response / input to the issues of the day, not hog government monies for their particular area. Personally I'd prefer to see number of MPs halved, number of days they meet reduced by 90% and the legislation they generate reduced by 99%. England / UK has had a parliament for almost 900 years - surely, with a very few exceptions, we should have created all the laws we need by now. Let's go for small government (I don't mean Hazel Blears) and low taxes.

In my family HH is known as "do you know who I am Harman" after her performance at a local hospital trying to visit out of visiting hours and pressing staff to let her to the bedside because of her "status". We've all heard about Two Jags Prescott, Labour?s former Deputy Leader. Now Harriet Harman is not only Deputy Leader and Chairman of the Labour Party, she is Leader of the House of Commons and is still supposed to be MP for Camberwell and Peckham (which now extends to the Lewisham boundary and takes in elements of East Dulwich). Despite the fact that she has been the local MP for 25 years, ask almost anyone on the street and they?d be hard pressed to say who she was. It?s time for her to go to the Lords and let us elect someone who will focus on looking after Camberwell and Peckham. Heaven knows we still have big problems, of genuine concern to the people that live here. Crime, education, jobs, the health service, especially the impending closure of the Maudsley Emergency Clinic, all these things could do with some attention from a hardworking local MP

Re TimMJ's note yesterday: - I think we're im danger of straying into "lounge" territory but ....... Re: Harris Academy (new boys school for East Dulwich) Posted by: TimJM Yesterday, 09:28PM Well it's apparent we're never going to agree on this but even taking your logic the academy is a contradiction. Agree, that we?re unlikely to agree. I?m from free enterprise / competition is good end of the political spectrum ? I sense you're not! I have been known to read the Guardian but only to test the arguments of the opposition. If you believe that private schools are better run why is this one entitled to public money and public land? To kick start a competitive market in education, something that hasn?t been the case for 140 years. I would prefer the Swedish model where the state offered transferable schooling vouchers and a swathe of privately run schools were created to cater for parent / child demand.[ /i] While we're at it removing the charitable status of existing private schools would even up the amount they have to spend per pupil. Do LEAs pay taxes ? removing the charitable status would create an inequality in spend rather than the reverse. Anyway ? why knock a successful education service that costs the state nothing yet benefits the state by educating something like 10% of all children that otherwise would become a state task? You oppose nationalisation yet there are key services that even you don't want to risk to the vagaries of private capital. i.e. the police force and the army. Yes, there are a few areas where I feel state provision makes sense but, as I said only a very few. Defence is one, but even here there are areas where some private provision makes sense (training / catering ? recruiting / accommodation) ? policing is another logical state service, although it could be argued that security (in the police / crime prevention sense) has already been part privatized, the abundance of private security companies visible in supermarkets, stores, housing estates and so on. Even the ?official police? themselves find it helpful / necessary to charge for their services ? so a hospital / shop / business can have a 24/7 police presence if it pays the salary costs and provides a base. The army investigated roll-on ferries and decided they were inherently unsafe. Private companies decided they were safe enough to make a profit from (even when the aptly named 'Herald of Free Enterprise' sinks costing 193 lives the private owners are unaccountable). Businesses can run risks with people's lives as long as the shareholders are happy. Arguing from the specific to the general case is always a sign of a weak position. Can you demonstrate that nationalised industries / services are inherently more safe than those run by for profit companies? Shareholders become very unhappy when their capital / dividends / profits are put at risk by sloppy management and make every effort to have efficient management. If Harris acdemy save costs and build and run unsafe, unsuccessful schools it's the politicians and the rest of us who pay the price and bale them out. This is not my proposition ? remember I wasn?t suggesting an Academy was inherently superior ? only that it represented a start in reducing the centralised, bureaucratic and costly control of education that is the current model. Of course Adam Smith economists would point out that it wouldn't be a successful business thereafter as it would lose 'customers' but frankly how many reckless examples of private capital gambling with people's lives do you want? I would argue that countless lives have been blighted by lousy education ? the vast majority of which has been provided by the state. That?s recklessness on a scale that dwarfs anything the private sector could achieve. Railtrack continue to take vast sums of public money and cut costs on track maintainence. As I said ? the privatization was botched. Given that it is now effectively back in state hands it is the state that is responsible for its poor performance and high costs. Compare the state invested railways and education systems of France and Germany with those of the UK and then explain how our system is so much better. Along with France and Germany we too have state funded systems ? but we seem to end up with the worst of either world. The NHS internal markets are increasing bureaucracy, costs and sacking nurses. The academies are a step in the same direction. The direction of travel in the NHS is toward Foundation Hospitals, by constitution, free from Treasury and other direct government control. Not a truly privatised service ? state funding of healthcare is the chosen system in UK but a step toward creating market driven, locally accountable, providers of healthcare. This is what we should be aiming for in education. Successive govn's (Tory and New Labour) have already bought into the idea of internal markets and privitisation and the result is ever increasing chaos and lack of accountability. Both parties want to rig the free market ? being only a little bit competitive is like being a little bit pregnant - impossible, hence the apparent chaos. Airlines, clothes shops, book shops, shipping lines, car makers ? all seem to avoid chaos in a fully competitive free market. Nobody in favour of the new academy seems to be able to explain why an overcrowded school, run by unelected, unaccountable businessmen is a good thing. And I'm really curious to know whether any of the advocates of such a school would be daft enough to send their children there. (John Selwyn Gummer please step forward!) Not me Gov ? I?m out of the bracket. The truly appalling issue is that 60 years after the Butler Education Act the country is still experimenting with its education system. It?s not a case of ?if it ain?t broke ? don?t fix it? so much as ?it?s always broke ? let?s tinker a bit to see what happens? Here, I sense, we might have some common ground.

TimJM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > By the same logic would you argue that, as the > current society is insufficiently democratic, > you'd like to give dictatorship a try?! > > Surely the issue here is about trying to improve > on the accountability and question the goals of > elected representatives. Not dispense with them > altogether and hope and unelected, unaccountable > body will improve things. It didn't work with the > railways and a majority of professional opinions > are strongly arguing it wont work in education. TimJM Adam Smith, free markets? The provision of education isn't handled by democracy, it's more of a form of benign (at least in the eyes of the bureaucrats) dictatorship. True democracy allows individuals the freedom to make choices. Governments and politicians are only necessary evils to manage and deliver the few, very few services, that the individual cannot provide for themselves or purchase for themselves. I want small government, low taxes and strong defence - almost Victorian! I would agree that the "privatisation" of the railways was a complete pigs ear - mainly because the politicians were too timid. Railways worked rather well up to 1947 - replicating the pre nationalisation model would have been so much better. This approach would help the NHS too - that was the biggest nationalisation there ever was! My theorectical support for Academies lies not in any inherent strengths, or special powers they may have but in the hope that they will be the forerunners of truly market driven education - sure we can try to make our elected representatives work better, become more accountable, listen to our ideas - but it hasn't worked for quite a while, particularly in education and health. Up to 30% of the LEA education budget goes in running the LEA - just think what schools could achieve if the per head funding leapt by 30%, and what innovations, initiatives and developments would we see if a school's continued succes, and indeed continuation, depended upon its ability to attract pupils - and that in turn would depend on its ability to deliver outcomes that pupils and parents valued. I'll pre-empt the argument that such schools would be hijacked by the middle classes - having lived and worked with the widest range of social classes over the years I've never met a parent yet who didn't want the best for their children - but who were, at the same time, aware of their children's real potential. So let's have academies with grammar streams, with vocational training (no more Polish plumbers?), with links to local businesses and arrangements pupils to "leave" school at an earlier age provided they are apprenticed to a recognised skill (including music, painting, sculpture or anything else that could lead them to a rewarding and satisfying living / life). There's so much more the market can achieve - if we let it. As far as I'm concerned Government should tax me just enough to provide for the security of the country and its people (police and defence forces), provide the "safety net" necessary for those that fall on hard times and leave the rest of my, and everyone else's, money to them to spend.

TimJM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well at least that explains why there's no > playground. If there are going to be 950 pupils > crammed onto the site I'd be supportive of a > footbridge into Peckham Rye Park to minimise the > liklihood of fatalities on the adjacent road. > > I'd still be against it being an academy rather > than local authority run school. Is this because our local authority has demonstrated such success in providing high quality education for the children of the community? Or is it a principled stand against change, choice and for centralised bureaucracy? Personally I'm glad my children's education is now at tertiary level and we don't have to rely on London LEAs however, were they still in secondary education I'd prefer an Academy, ideally with streaming, to a "bog standard comprehensive" - we tried those, didn't like them.

I read somewhere that there are claims for Peckham Rye to have been the site of Boudicca's (Queen of the Iceni tribe) final battle in AD 60 - which I had always understood to have been in NE London on the edge of Epping Forest - anyone have any views / knowledge of this?

Just returned from this restaurant. Very friendly staff, busy and buzzy atmosphere. Food was good value, generous portions, gutsy flavours - try the Spaghetti Lorenzo (capers, garlic, olives & chillis), particularly recommended. Short and low cost wine list. Probably possible to have a bowl of pasta, salad and glass of wine for less than ?15.00 a head if you chose. We will return.

jim_the_chin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i would like a tea shop. i'd like to open one and > call it The Tea Shop and sell a wide range of teas > from around the world. I think it would be a very > civilised place. A new "chain" is hoping to establish just such a thing in London, but not, yet, ED - a tea shop serving hot buttered toast at breakfast time, cream teas in the afternoon and a huge selection of teas - all served in china teapots using loose (no teabags) tea. Mint teas, gunpowder teas, green teas and proper breakfast tea. First, of what the owner / inventor hopes will be many, is just off Paternoster Sq next to St Pauls. I found it by accident and had a very soothing 40 inutes between two stressful meetings in London. Recommended.

david_carnell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's a bit off topic 'coz its a different > destination, but could someone recommend the most > efficient and/or cost effective way of getting > from East Dulwich (I move to Oakhurst Grove next > month) to St Thomas' Hospital next to Waterloo > Station. > > Thanks. Best bet - either No. 12 bus - Dulwich Library / Barry Road / Peckham Rye stops. Or, as many will tell you, a bike ride - almost all the way is flat (avoid Dog Kenel Hill by going thru' Peckham High St and along to Camberwell Green). St Thomas' will have shower facilities etc at the end of the journey. Elephant & Castle by bike at rush hour can be a little scary first few times but gets easier over time!

I would be interested in joining a learn chess again club. PLease keep me posted.