Marmora Man

As, probably, the only submariner on the EDF I can recommend "Kursk" at the Young Vic. On until 17th April. The artistic narrative is a little limited but the overall atmosphere and sense of occasion creates a brilliant evocation of submarine life. Recommended. KURSK

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- m7, i think the whole point about democracy is that minorities who want to enact change against the wishes of the majority don't get to do it! Unless of course they can create a majority by persuasion, good arguments, marketing, strong feeling. There are precedents - suffragettes, universal democracy, the "original" welfare state argument.

Brendan Wrote: You have just in your last paragraph unintentionally displayed one of the attitudes which spark these caricatures by saying, ??they are the only option.? This echoes George Osborne?s closing comment last nigh, comes across as dismissive of the other options and belies a certain arrogance which people find objectionable and which makes it very easy to form negative opinions. I did caveat my comment by stating "I still believe" - I didn't state it as a "fact". So to that extent I don't believe I was displaying arrogance - just expressing an opinion There is a reliance on this dismissive arrogance in both the Conservative and Labour campaigns because it is their only argument that are any better equipped to run a government than the Liberal Democrats (an aside regarding my current political decisions) when the only evidence for this is that that they both have more money for a bigger PR campaigns. This further seems to indicate an attitude that representation should be directly proportional to how much money you have. The political reality of this election and most since 1930 is that the Liberal party or LibDem party will be condemned to third place. It is not arrogance on George Osbourne's part to point this out - tho' it was, perhaps, a little patronising. But this is just one example of where this caricature of conservatives comes from. My own experience, for what it?s worth, of people who support the Conservative Party in the uk is that they display little of what I believed Conservatism to be i.e. a belief in good values and personal responsibility but rather they delight in the arrogance of wealth and the only thing they seem concerned about conserving is privilege. All you need to do is have a few chats with people in the City and around Whitehall to see this. On this Brendan we do differ - I have met many Conservative voters and Conservative politicians. They range from our local candidate - a deeply moral man who has spent the last 10 years working on a sink estate paid far less than the minimum wage to help the poor, deprived, poorly educated and other residents of his community in many ways - including tackling drug and knife crime, to some city "fat cats" but including on the way university lecturers, school teachers, doctors, nurses, porters, mechanics and engineers, chefs and so on. I would like to think that you would find all of them rational, sensible, caring and thinking members of society with whom you would enjoy a glass of beer or wine and find them amusing and pleasant company.

Quids - I wouldn't argue that the Conservatives tactics in the run up to the election have been poor (and personally disappointing) I still believe hey are the only option. They do have the policies, they do have the plans and they will (I am sure) deliver a better Britain over the next five years. Regrettably, they haven't given me all the ammo I need to argue that convincingly. What I can argue convincingly is that the caricature of Conservatives and Conservative policy as portrayed by the likes of Ratty and others is plain wrong.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- I think it's a political own goal actually Keef - we've massive debts to repay and a reversal in the proposed National Insurance increase paid for out of apparent efficiencies with no effects on service delivery looks pie in the sky. I think you may be surprised. Reversing the NI hike is something that business has been asking for - and the Conservatives are not the only party quoting "efficiency savings" - Alaistair Darling's entire plan seems to rest on a similar argument + some very unrealistic estimates of growth. I'll be watching tonight's programme with interest - and expect George Osbourne to, at least, holds his own if not win the bout.

matthew123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- At the end of the day people will be guided as much, if not more, by the last Tory government when they visit the ballot box. That is the biggest problem for the Conservatives the memories that still linger from 1997 Unfortunately many memories of the era 1979 - 1997 are the stuff of folk stories, ghosties and ghoulies with Margaret Thatcher cast as an evil witch and nothing positive achieved. Those whose memories extend to the late 60s and 70s can and do appreciate what that Conservative administration achieved in reversing a seemingly inevitable decline. Mistakes were made but the handover from Conservatives to Labour in '97 was of a growing economy with low national debt.

I've been meaning to see Jerusalem - and have just found out that 20 tickets a day are kept back at box office at ?10 each. Box office opens at 10.00 but queues start at 6.30! Going to queue after Easter

Whatever Labour pledges on the cheese front the outcome of the election will deliver Blue Cheese

1. The Labour pledges offend my managerial instincts rather than my political. They are just so bland and banal. Management objectives should be Specific - and detailed Measureable Achievable Relevant & realistic Time sensitive - ie have a timescale for achievement specified. Not one of the five pledges meet any of the above criteria. 2. Brendan complains that there is a lack of policy - he could try reading Here for 29 separate articles on Conservative policy, and for greater details on some specific areas then here (Health), here (Schools), here (Economy) and here (Government Transparency). 3. Peckham Rose - you might consider voting for the best local candidate irrespective of party - I would suggest this is Andy Stranack but it's obviously your choice - but I would urge you and everyone to use their vote. 4. I argue for a conservative government on the grounds of historical competence and a commitment to smaller and, more importantly, affordable government. The great unsaid of Labour's recent budget was that, even if their vague and unsubstantiated plans for halving the deficit do actually work (despite the over optimistic estimates of growth and reliance on "efficiency savings"), the National Debt will still be double its current level at the end of a further 5 years at ?1.4 TRILLION pounds. Since 2001 government spending has been financed by a steadily growing reliance on borrowing which now stands at ?500,000,000 a day.

Have a look at what people think Public Response I know what I think about them - what do you think about them?

So far I've just caught the headlines - but it doesn't appear too inspiring. Careful use of slightly inflated growth estimates enabled Mr Darling to predict better tax revenues and lower cyclical costs over the next four years (did he really believe his own estimates? Most experienced commentators estimates of growth are well below his). The "help for British industry" seem pathetic and, altho' the pacing of the fuel escalator tax rise is welcome, as is the stamp duty holiday on purchases up to ?250K carrying on with NI rises will not help business grow or develop.

genw - it's not the arctic out here you know! No need to feel isolated - see earlier posts. I can walk to LL in 15 mins or bike in 5. WE have all the usual facilities + Peckham Rye and Peckham Rye PArk right on the doorstep. I work all over the show but can get pretty much anywhere in london easily by bus, via Elephant & Castle. Plus, as has been pointed out the LT overground line will be running from Honor Oak soon

david_carnell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Could I bribe you with MCC membership? Everyone has their price and pain threshold. MCC membership would be my price and, almost, anything to do with dentristry would represent my pain threshold.

I'm flattered to be on the shortest odds (tho at 10/1 still long). Would be prepared to lead the Libertarian Cricketers Party (LCP). I see cricket as an elegant metaphor for the way life and politics should be handled. A long and slow evolution of laws over 200 years, it requires a certain degree of erudition and understanding to enjoy properly, does not earnestly seek a knock out result and is, relatively, untainted by scandal. It has absorbed and entranced players of all nations, ethnicity and religion. It was considered and rejected by Hitler as inappropriate for a Fascist state Ben Macintyre "Hitler played Cricket". Spectators and players obtain similar levels of satisfaction - unruly behaviour and riots seldom happen. It has many forms for different audiences - wham bam 20/20 for the youth and those of short attention span, one day matches for those with limited time, four day county matches and 5 day Test matches for the connoisseurs. Platform therefore: No sudden change Respect for tradition Umpires, in white coats and panamas for all parliamentary discussions Only one bouncer per MP per debate - helmets not allowed Mandatory exams for MPs on the Duckworth Lewis and the LBW law Spectators in parliament to be allowed to bring in own sandwiches and beer Football not to be played during the cricket season I'll work up the rest of the details later (like all politicians!)

Simon, Great - Thanks. I was trying to access iPlayer via VIrgin Media cable box with no joy. Will have to watch via PC. Cheers

Simon, Great - Thanks. I was trying to access iPlayer via VIrgin Media cable box with no joy. Will have to watch via PC. Cheers

Does anyone have a recording of this episode I can borrow? MIssed it and cannot catch up, as I thought I could, via iPLayer as it doesn't seem to have an iPlayer presence. Thanks MM

A salute to the heroes from one of the "Senior Service". More importantly this level of gallantry awards underlines the nature of the conflict that soldiers, sailors and airmen are experiencing currently in the service of our country. Please note the following three charities - all of which are doing great work to help servicemen and their families cope with the inevitable stresses and pain that arise now and will be doing so long into the future. Combat Stress Royal British Legion SSAFA

Honor Oak & East Dulwich - different lines.

I'd add - don't know about schools but from security / community aspect - I've always found it sound. I know a number of neighbours to talk to or, at least, say hello as we pass in the street. Not aware of any security issues - certainly not a hot spot for crime that I'm aware (have lived here 6 years). Only downside I can think of are a certain number of incontinent dogs and inconsiderate owners.

I like it - fantastic views over the rooftops if you have a house / flat looking to the North. Forest Hill Rd has useful local amenities - good Indian (Omrith), good late night shop ("The Turkish"), cash machines, two pubs (Herne - good for families & food) The Forest Hill Tavern (less good in my opinion but suits younger sports watching types), good VFM, but not "gourmet" local Italian (Si Mangia - see threads about it on EDF). Easy walk / cycle to Lordship Lane for all other needs. Excellent Peckham Rye PArk just 200 yards away. Housing stock either good Victorian or sound 1930's properties - space and garden that would cost ?750K in the Village would be ?500K in the area.

Obviously it works with whatever individual is used - An Englishman / Irishman / SCotsman / A Politician etc etc. Insert politician according to your prejudice - my prejudice is fairly well known and I transmitted joke as received.

A Very Important Labour Politician boarding the plane at Heathrow bound for Edinburgh and his constituency was seated next to a little girl. Having strapped in he turned to the young girl and said ?Let?s talk. I?ve heard that the flight goes more quickly if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger?. The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to the Very Important Labour Politician ?What would you like to talk about?? ?Oh I don?t know? said the Very Important Labour Politician ?how about global warming or universal healthcare?? and he smiles smugly and strangely, in the way that only a Very Important Labour Politician can. ?OK? she said. ?Those could be interesting topics. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat the same stuff ? grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produce clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?? The Very Important Labour Politician, surprised by the little girl?s question thinks about and says ? Hmmm, I have no idea? To which the little girl replies ?Do you really feel qualified to discuss global warming or universal healthcare when you don?t know shit??

Alfie The Spy Who Came in From the Cold The Ipcress File

NOT in anyone's interest.