Moflo

A fireman is for life not just for Bonfire night ;-)

frierntastic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > As for striking on 5 Nov, I hope that, if anyone > is injured, or property lost through lack of fire > cover, that they sue. Sue who? The firefighters for striking or the lfb for saying they have adequate cover when they know they dont? Sue assetco for taking on a contract they know they cant honour? Sue LFB for not stopping the strikes? Because they could stop it right now. By lifting the 188. But they choose not to. They choose to allow the strike to go ahead. So who are you going to sue? Maybe all of them? Or are we just blaming the ff's for all this.

I am sure all ff's thank you for you comments native. On behalf of my son I do.

So what are you saying MM, that there shouldn't be public sector workers? that they all are a drain on society? That all sections of society should be in the private sector so that we can return to the victorian Mill owner mentality and that all workers should be subservient and thankful for their lot?

Public sector workers pay tax and so contribute to the whole! They also pay quite a large proportion of their wages into their pension fund. So you are saying that is wrong? That nurses, doctors, police should not have a pension fund. Firefighters pay 11% increasing to 14% I do not know what the police pay into their pensions but would expect it is something similar. So they pay tax, national insurance and private pension whats wrong with that. Are you saying if they get a private pension they shouldnt get a state pension as well? Tell that to the people who have paid into both over the last 50 year or so! They are all sponging off us tax payers are they? In the private sector most companies offer pensions scheme, obviously there are some that don't but the majority do. You can opt in or opt out it is your choice.

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This second job nonsense (and that sleeping on > shifts supports it) has been known for a long > time. > > Whilst it's only human nature to resist change > (esp. change that removes perks), many public > sector workers think they have a preferential > 'right' to these things. > > It's OUR taxes that pay their wages, that fund > their pensions and perks......I don't see why > anyone should have to fund someone else's job > benefits when they no such benefits in their own > employment (and work many more hours than FFs). > > We as taxpayers have a right to demand that public > services are efficient and cost effective. And > like MM I have seen no convincing argument from > the FFU to say that any of the changes will result > in the claims they make with reference to > service. > > Oh and striking on November 5th is just cycnical > and designed to hold the management and us the > public to ransom imo but will achieve nothing. They pay for their pension as well, they pay 11% of their wage and this is increasing to 14%. We pay for pensions in all public sectors but so do the workers, they pay tax as well so infact are funding the pensions twice? They also pay tax one their "second jobs" if of course they have one. My son certainly doesnt!

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Facebook Page "I support London's Finest > Firefighters". > > "5,282 people like this" > > It's not really a figure to be shouting about.. > there are more firefighters than this involved in > the action! Once you take into account family, The Facebook page "I Support London Firefighters" 19,727 people like this 200,000 members > friends, plus affiliated unions etc etc the figure > is dismal..

The FBU argue that it will not improve efficiency, 12hour day shifts are too long and detrimental to working practices. They argue that a 24hour system is better because of the regulated stand down times. Same applies for 8/16, that give day shifts a healthier 8 hour day shift, night shifts extend for 1 hour but again stand down times come into it. I do not understand all the terminology but I understand in principle. No doubt MM will put me right! Iaincourbert is correct,we all have our own opinions on this and I do not think anyone has been persuaded to change their minds by any of the opposing comments. I do know that the FF's are strong in their belief that the LFB has other reasons for the need of shift changes. The 12/12 system will allow the LFB to remove appliances and redistribute FF's thereby closing stations at night. That in turn will make response time longer and increase risks. Some will not agree I am sure but I beg to differ!! Check out facebook page I support London Firefighters and read postings there and you will see the level of commitment.

DJKW why are you back on about pay? thats not the issue is it? Being sacked before agreements are made is! Thats the nutshell, remove the threat and no strikes. Simple.

IainC makes good points I think. Striking on 5th will obviously divide public opinion, I would have thought that the FF's are aware of this but feel that they must bring home their position and show what will be happening if the cuts in service that will be inevitable become reality. If you go onto the FBU website I am sure details of the dispute are explained. I, as a mother of a firefighter can only express how he feels, he has wanted this profession since he was little, it took him three years to get through the procedure and training. Do youo think he would throw all that away just to be militant and try and stick it to management. He is on the front line and is happy to be so, this system has worked for over 30 years, their productivity has exceeded managements demands. We all accept that changes sometimes need to be made and FF's are no exception, they know shift changes are inevitable and are willing to discuss this, but to be threatend with the sack before agreement is made then this is wrong. Dont go on saying this has been argued for 5 years because these negotiations started in June this year. there has been various mentions in the last 5 years about shift changes but no negotiations started. Again see FBU webiste. I will continue to support my son and his colleagues and hope that the public do as well, going by various support websites this is the case. Everyone has their own opinions and this is right, but so is the right to take action. All unions will use whatever means they have for maximum effect, it has always been so and I expect always will. No matter what facts and details are put on here some of you will shout them down and disagree, your right! On an earlier note, the 24hour system works exceptionally well in US and other countries, why not here?

Pearson, are you jealous of firefighters? did you fail the process? Did a union refuse you entry because you was so obstropilous (did I spell it right? sorry if no!) and might give them a bad name.COme on man lighten up! Can you not agree that they have the right to stand up for what they believe in! Its not their fault that other people have shit jobs, or bad working conditions, or not in a union. I have all these but I wouldn't deny anyone their right to protest, why are you different. Thank you Iaincoubert for you comments at least someone understands the issue.

Here we go again, and what do you expect them to do if LFB and Mr Coleman will not negotiate? Just take whatever they put in front of them? Again it is not about shift patterns or money. It is about section 188! If it was just about shift pattrns why wouldnt they accept the 24hour pattern put forward by the FBU. It works on all levels. But its not about that and the LFB, Mr Dobson and Mr Colemn know this. The FBU know this, the FF's know this. I agree to an extent about the RMT but as you will no doubt be aware they is growing unrest in all the unions and the Fire Authority is fuelling the fire. No pun intended! Its easily resolved. Remove section 188!

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your mum making you a fry-up on a Sunday morning. I see and do that every saturday and sunday! Respect!

Hearing from friends and family who attended picket lines, plenty of public support, RMT workers refused to run Jubilee line because would be dangerous pracice wihout proper fire cover. Same will happen again on the 1st. As it is a weekday the potential for major disruption is there! LFB can put whatever spin they like on it, they know that they cannot maintain safe procedures. I expect you are all fed up with me spouting on so I won't any more. Unless i get annoyed again that is! Stay safe everyone, support your London Firefighters!!

Sorry about spellings but comp playing up after baby spilt drink!! Pearson, I get the feeling what ever is said you won't believe anyway so no point in trying! It has been spelt out by plenty of posters including a London Firefighter and others, both sides so what ever you want to think is fine. I and plenty of others know that their cause is a just one and they will continue to fight for their jobs and your fire service! http://www.demotix.com/news/484789/firefighters-strike-after-sack-threat?awesm=fbshare.me_AVjkm

Fuschia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.flickr.com/photos/frpix/sets/7215762510 > 5534167/with/5110755444/ I hink this covers it.

Iaincoubert. The fire at Millwall was fact. The Assetco could not cope, took too long to respond and could not deal with the extent of the fire. A catastrophy for all! FF's tried to help but were told to remove themselves. Out of 27 Assetco cover only 11 completed the day. 2 appliances wrecked! Kbabe01 is right, lets hope sense will prevail and management see what they have to do, remove section 188!

Also I take our point about other postings. But one was to wind someone up!!

I agree and am sure it was not firefighters as they are all at their stations picketing. The FBU have reported that the so called replacements have been caught using red lights to get to Macdonalds (Actually pulled over by police, my nephew confirmed this, he is police) not answering calls by going to status 0. One even asked at a station if by working for Assetco would it help his FF application. These are the people who are protecting you today. If they are crossing picket lines then the must expect to be put on the spot. But IF they were on a shout lets hope they could deal with it because plenty of others couldnt and fire crews have gone out to cover. While on strike and attending an incident and are injured they do not get sick pay or worse come to worse they have no death cover! That is the type person you want to protect you, not someone who thinks Macdonalds is important!

Pearson!! I'm here! you have got your way and they have been removed! Cant understand why Pilgrim's has been taken off, Is this sensorship?? how undemocratic? By the way as I was saying, Firefighters have broken the strike to cover an incident as I thought they would anyway. Assetco crews could not cope. But news censorship will not cover that! Some of them have refused to cover because they will not cross picket lines. There, I'm finished til next time!

thats up to the moderator to decide! I am reporting what has happened and that it may be of interest to people in ED if the anything happens in this area! but if you dont like it dont read it!

Pilgrim was making a point, scabs are strike breakers my dear! Pearson whats your problem? is it too difficult to read two postings! Ive started another as well, is that too much for you as well!!

Firefighters in Dagenham have broken picket to attend 999 call! Scabs could not cope! These boys do not want to strike!

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Huguenot Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Okay, I'll do it. > > > > The additional 2.5% on VAT would turn a pound > > store into at 102.1277 pence store, not 102.5. > > > > This is because the additional 2.5% is added to > > the pre VAT price of the product, which is > > 85.10638p, not the inclusive price of 100p. > > > Brilliant - could not have put it better mysekf. I > was itching to do it though. Lol how Anal are you lot!!

I think you are right there, there obviously is going to be bad feelings on both sides, If the Section 188 is removed then no strike, I take the point about the FBU, I personally do not think they have handled this well, The losers in all of this is the FF's and eventually the public if the changes that they think will come through later, ie closing stations and reduced night time cover. They do not want to strike, who does but I think they have been minipulated into this. As statistics show most fires are at night, so I do not think that Assetco will be stretched too far,this the managment know. Although how they will be equiped for RTA's I'm not sure, as for as I know they will not have the equipment for this. Yes enevitably the service is going to change, time will tell if it will be for the better. LB I take your point, and well said. I can only speak from a peronal standpoint, my son as a FF doesn't want to strike, he cannot afford to lose a days wage plus the 20% they are alread deducting, but he will support his colleagues! The have put forward different shift patterns but all have been ignored, the suggested the same system as US 24hour shifts, most feel this would work best but again LFB have ignored these proposals. Its seems to be accept or go! Does not seem right to me, maybe I am missing something, or being too simplistic!