Moflo

Fuschia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.flickr.com/photos/frpix/sets/7215762510 > 5534167/with/5110755444/ I hink this covers it.

Iaincoubert. The fire at Millwall was fact. The Assetco could not cope, took too long to respond and could not deal with the extent of the fire. A catastrophy for all! FF's tried to help but were told to remove themselves. Out of 27 Assetco cover only 11 completed the day. 2 appliances wrecked! Kbabe01 is right, lets hope sense will prevail and management see what they have to do, remove section 188!

Also I take our point about other postings. But one was to wind someone up!!

I agree and am sure it was not firefighters as they are all at their stations picketing. The FBU have reported that the so called replacements have been caught using red lights to get to Macdonalds (Actually pulled over by police, my nephew confirmed this, he is police) not answering calls by going to status 0. One even asked at a station if by working for Assetco would it help his FF application. These are the people who are protecting you today. If they are crossing picket lines then the must expect to be put on the spot. But IF they were on a shout lets hope they could deal with it because plenty of others couldnt and fire crews have gone out to cover. While on strike and attending an incident and are injured they do not get sick pay or worse come to worse they have no death cover! That is the type person you want to protect you, not someone who thinks Macdonalds is important!

Pearson!! I'm here! you have got your way and they have been removed! Cant understand why Pilgrim's has been taken off, Is this sensorship?? how undemocratic? By the way as I was saying, Firefighters have broken the strike to cover an incident as I thought they would anyway. Assetco crews could not cope. But news censorship will not cover that! Some of them have refused to cover because they will not cross picket lines. There, I'm finished til next time!

thats up to the moderator to decide! I am reporting what has happened and that it may be of interest to people in ED if the anything happens in this area! but if you dont like it dont read it!

Pilgrim was making a point, scabs are strike breakers my dear! Pearson whats your problem? is it too difficult to read two postings! Ive started another as well, is that too much for you as well!!

Firefighters in Dagenham have broken picket to attend 999 call! Scabs could not cope! These boys do not want to strike!

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Huguenot Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Okay, I'll do it. > > > > The additional 2.5% on VAT would turn a pound > > store into at 102.1277 pence store, not 102.5. > > > > This is because the additional 2.5% is added to > > the pre VAT price of the product, which is > > 85.10638p, not the inclusive price of 100p. > > > Brilliant - could not have put it better mysekf. I > was itching to do it though. Lol how Anal are you lot!!

I think you are right there, there obviously is going to be bad feelings on both sides, If the Section 188 is removed then no strike, I take the point about the FBU, I personally do not think they have handled this well, The losers in all of this is the FF's and eventually the public if the changes that they think will come through later, ie closing stations and reduced night time cover. They do not want to strike, who does but I think they have been minipulated into this. As statistics show most fires are at night, so I do not think that Assetco will be stretched too far,this the managment know. Although how they will be equiped for RTA's I'm not sure, as for as I know they will not have the equipment for this. Yes enevitably the service is going to change, time will tell if it will be for the better. LB I take your point, and well said. I can only speak from a peronal standpoint, my son as a FF doesn't want to strike, he cannot afford to lose a days wage plus the 20% they are alread deducting, but he will support his colleagues! The have put forward different shift patterns but all have been ignored, the suggested the same system as US 24hour shifts, most feel this would work best but again LFB have ignored these proposals. Its seems to be accept or go! Does not seem right to me, maybe I am missing something, or being too simplistic!

I have lived in ED for 41 years, not born here! Changes in the place not all the best but on the whole its a great place to live. Could do with some more traditional pubs, M&S, an Italian (Bella Pasta, Zizzi), a good steak house. Don't agree when someone said shouldn't have Iceland here, can get some good bargains there!!

Things have obviously got very heated over this debate. I started this because I felt strongly about the FF's situation and still do. My stance on this has been stated so no need to say again. Others have an equally strong view and whilst I do not agree with them I respect their right to express it. Please lets continue the debate and hope that the FF's and brigade come to sensible conclusion, on the side of the FF's of course! So BBB, Pearson, LB bring it on!!

LB, I make you right, If anyone has anything to say, say it up front not behind doors or backs. Back to the subject in hand! Hands up who support London Fire Fighters! Me!!

I'm back, have you missed me? I can't see that anyone has been bullied, except for FF's, I am sure most on here are big enough and ugly enough to take care of themselves! Me included!

Huguenot Wrote: > > This 'prelude to privatisation' stuff seems > nonsensical union rabble rousing, and this 'all > getting sacked' is also a 'technicality' red > herring, because really they're just getting new > contracts. Nobody seems to actually have a view > that the new contracts are bad, it's just that > they don't like getting new ones. Stations have official notification that the LFB are invoking clause 188. After 90 days if they do not agree the changes to contract they will be sacked, That is the reason for the action, withdraw that clause and its back to negotiations! They know there will be changes but do not feel that pressure of being sacked helps the process.

And I think it is then same for most FF's. My son has wanted to be a FF since he was 7. He applied twice before being accepted after a two year application process. Then 5months training, plus numerous courses in safety procedures such and chemical and terrorist attacks. To leave all that would be heartbreaking for him!

Londonfireman, Thank you for your posting I hope ED read it. I dispair at some of the comments but such is the situation because of the negative media. I personally think the FBU should have been a bit more pro-active. I hope sense prevails and you all are able to get on with your work in keeping London safe. x

Oh sorry did I upset you?

Thats the point there has not been adaquate cover. And there wont be especially with Assetco! You have been warned so best of luck!

DJKQ The man has just laid out how his shifts work. What difference does it make what the statistics are? One one shift they may have 10 shouts, another 2, then the next 12, then none so gives an average of 8 over the 4 days how does that help the situation? Do you only read the points that you like or do you take notice of what is being said. IT IS NOT ABOUT MONEY OR HOURS WORKED OR SLEEPING, IT IS ABOUT THE REDUCED COVER IN THE NIGHT that will happen if the LFPP bring in these changes. So if your local station is shut and you dial 999 (not bish bash bosh999 coz he wont come out!) see how much longer it will take for them to get to you!! By the way doctors sleep on their night shifts! Go tell them they shouldn't, you want an alert and competent doctor. You also want an alert and competent firefighter, not one who hasn't slept for 24 hours! And before you rant on I am not comparing firefighters with doctors, but then again doctors don't go to work with the chance they won't go home again! But again that isn't the issue!

Thank you Kbabe01 for clearing that up. BBB999 I stupidly forgot to add the words "as quoted by a serving London Firefighter" my apologies it must have confused you no end!! Glad to hear that you are interested in my predicament and yes I am the mother of a serving FF (not the one who made the post) who hasnt had time to make any posts coz he is busy working and looking after his family the best he can whilst, serving the community (another sarcastic reply coming I think) while worrying about being sacked and losing 20% of his wages, that are not anywhere near ?40,000+ by the way, If you are as I think a retired FF then I am surprised at your attitude as you surely know how the service has been denegrated! But whatever! you are entitled to your opinion and I mine. The FBU have an intersting news release on their website that may be of interest to some! Search this Website News & Press ? PRESS RELEASE ? PRESS RELEASE ? PRESS RELEASE ?. PRESS RELEASE ? Download Format 15 October 2010 WOULD YOU TRUST THIS COMPANY WITH YOUR FAMILY'S SAFETY? When London?s firefighters go on strike, the safety of Londoners will be in the hands of an international company whose chief executive officer, John Shannon, receives an annual bonus of ?400,000 and salary of ?300,000, largely paid for by London council tax payers. This sum would employ more than 20 firefighters, Fire Brigades Union general secretary Matt Wrack said today (Friday). ?Last year the company, Assetco, made a ?10.8 million increase in profits, again largely wrung from its biggest client, the London Fire Brigade? said Mr Wrack. ?Mr Shannon is far from their only fat cat. Many of the directors are on stunningly large salary and bonus packages, and also hold several other directorships. ?Assetco will deploy at most just 700 poorly trained employees to try to do the work of nearly 6,000 highly professional London firefighters? said Mr Wrack. ?In fact, they are understood informally to have just half that number. They are very secretive about who these employees are. ?Assetco?s temporary workforce have been secretly trained in Lincolnshire at a former RAF base. But the nature and length of that training is a closely guarded secret. We hear informally that it is just a few days. You cannot train a fully competent firefighter in a few days. ?They will operate from 27 locations, instead of London?s 113 fire stations, and they will use 27 fire engines instead of the normal 169. ?The London Fire Brigade is by far Assetco?s biggest customer, according to its website, ?the business is built around a cornerstone 20-year operational asset management contract with the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority (LFEPA) for London Fire Brigade.? Its other clients are the Abu Dhabi government, the UAE government, and Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue. ?In February 2001 it secured a 20-year PFI contract to own and manage all London fire engines and equipment. London?s fire engines, which used to belong to Londoners, now belong to Assetco. ?In July 2009 AssetCo secured a 7-year contract, the first of its nature in the UK, to provide a 700 strong firefighter reserve capability to LFEPA. They and the LFEPA put about the myth that it was for emergencies like a pandemic illness or flooding, but its real purpose was as a strikebreaking force, designed to ensure that London firefighters were always negotiating at a disadvantage. ?The London Fire Brigade started the process of sacking all its firefighters, and intends to have their work done in a half-hearted and inadequate way, by a company whose top people have already grown rich at Londoners? expense, just in order to avoid sitting down and negotiating shift patterns with the Fire Brigades Union. Nothing could be more irresponsible, and nothing could be more pig-headed? said Mr Wrack.

Sounds like a can of worms opened here!! I am really sorry that some people do not understand the firefighters dispute. I would agree that the FBU have failed to explain the dilemma to the public and therefore the perception is that the strike is all about shift patterns and pay. It is not, it is the fact that they are all going to be sacked. If the authorities withdraw this threat then no strike. There is another solution put to the Fire Authority but they are ignoring it. Most of the firefighter will accept 11/13, personally I dont see the difference in that to 12/12, and since the current shift pattern has worked succcessfully for the last 30 years why change it. They argue that productivity will increase witha 12 hour day shift. Not so,all relevent duties are covered. The arguement about training and specialist courses do not apply because most of these courses are outsourced and not covered in the station, they go to training centres. I would ask that some of you go and visit your local fire station and find out more directly from the people involved. I am the mother of a firefighter and see the effects on him when he has had a bad shout, I could go in detail but won't. They all have horrific stories to tell but they do this job because they are dedicated men and women, dedicated to your safety. They are your first response! Some do have second jobs, because they cannot afford the cost of living in London on their wage. Some do not have second jobs. Some nurses have second jobs, some paramedics have second jobs. In this day and age needs must. The average wage for a fire fighter is far below the national avereage, and they risk their lives every time they go to work. Please go and talk to your local fire fighters and hear what they have to say.

Thank you Fuschia. Well said. It has nothing to do with shifts or pay, when will people realise it is their safety that is at stake! Shoreditch have had appliances removed thereby rendering that staion useless! The fire authorities made it known that firefighters in fulham and hammersmith would disable the pumps if and when the stikes started. This is scare mongering! They have taken and stored appliances from all over London. I have to live with the fact that when my Son goes to work there is the chance that he will not come back, as is the same for all firefighters families. As to whoever stated that they sometimes have to work extra hours for no pay and that they run the risk of a road accident whilst they commute, who is it that comes and cuts them out of the vehicle? A firefighter who has just completed a 15hour shift and is still on duty because some idiot can't keep to the speed limit because he is late for his tea!! Wake up London!

I recently put a posting on here regarding the Firefighters plight. It has been removed. It may have contravened some rules but surely it was in the public interest to allow it to remain so that you all can be aware of what is happening to your fire service!! Shame!!

An article in local Fulham and Hammersmith paper: H&F fire stations struggle with engine cuts amid strike threats Oct 15 2010 By Greg Burns FEARS that firefighters in Hammersmith and Fulham will ...vandalise fire engines during their impending strike have been slammed as 'ridiculous' with dozens being taken away and crews left short of vital equipment. A total of 79 per cent of firefighters across London voted in favour of strike action in protest against proposed mass-sackings of staff and their re-employment under new shift patterns and conditions. In anticipation of the vote, 27 fire engines across London were taken away by Brigade bosses amid concerns they would be sabotaged by picketing firefighters and to be used by 700 workers on standby to help deal with the possible strike and include several engines from H&F. But these fears have been rubbished by one borough fireman who said it is leaving crews in H&F and neighbouring boroughs stretched to their limits. The man, who did not give his name for fear of the sack, said: "People need to know what is going on. The idea that we would vandalise the appliances is just ridiculous. "If we are on the picket line and an old lady's house goes up in flames over the road then we would want to go and help. Not sit by and watch because we had slashed the tyres on the engine." Fire stations in Hammersmith, Fulham and Chelsea have been left with only one engine at a time and sometimes none at all if they are forced to attend incidents in neighbouring boroughs. The firefighter said: "We have had to go out to incidents all across London in the past few days and that means there is not an engine in Hammersmith or Fulham at certain times and people should be aware of that. "This problem is escalating and it is not helping anyone. We need to be able to do our jobs properly and keep people safe." The decision to stockpile fire engines has also been slammed by the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) who say it is only strengthening their firefighter's resolve to take industrial action. Paul Embery, London FBU spokesman, said: "It is a hugely provocative move which will only worsen existing tensions. With the service already on the brink of collapse, it beggars belief. Matt Wrack, Fire Brigades Union (FBU) general secretary, said: "Firefighters hate going on strike but they hate being bullied even more." London Fire Brigade has caused controversy by forcing through changes in the current shift patterns and reducing the 15 hour night shift to 12 hours and increasing the nine hour day shifts to 12 hours. Brian Coleman, chairman of London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, said: "It is disappointing and saddening that the only losers in all of this will be firefighters. "A strike by the FBU will be unnecessary and viewed unsympathetically by Londoners." London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson said: "Our contingency plans will, of course, now move forward to ensure the capital is protected during any period of strike action by the FBU." Who are the commission trying to kid! They will use scab labour and put you all at risk!