Moflo

Ridgley Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I feel that there, will be more winter of > discontent Lets hope not!

Thanks to you all! SOme one kindly is sending a CD of the original song Let 'em come by Roy Greene! As a gooner I take offence to being shit on!! lol!!:))

Ha Ha I should have explained. A dear friend has passed away and she loved Millwall, her family would llike to find a copy of the song, It would have been the original words stating "we are from the Old Kent Road" She was 92 so it would have been an old old version! I myself have no idea being a Gooner so I bow to your superior knowledge! SO keep it clean peeps!

Does anyone know the original words to the Millwall song? If so where to get a copy?

Well my dear EDites, I suppose this is more or less the end of this topic........ or is it? We will see. I thank you all for taking up this post and was amazed at some of the comments, but as we are all different is stands to reason that the opinions would go the same way. I agree with Iain on most of this. I am gutted that Coleman and Dobson will try and turn this to their advantage when it could all have been avoided with a bit of common sense and good will! See you all after arbitration?

I know DKH is no fireworks but are sparklers for the kids OK?

Nobody takes anything for granted! and I object to your comment that I am not objective. If I think something is wrong I will state it, even if it is against my son. I think the strike for bonfire night is a publicity nightmare! But I support his right to do it. As you say most people are thankful for a job, but most people do not put their lives at risk when they go to work and if they do then they should be afforded some respect and at least the curtesy to be allowed to fight for their jobs.

I have read them MM, both sets of LFB and the FBU. I obviously think that the FBU paper makes sense, you obviously the LFB so we must agree to differ. I am emmotionally involved in this dispute, I have seen the distress that my Son has gone through after a particularly difficult incident, that he goes through when he misses out on the last 5 Christmas's since his son has been born, but he does it because he is dedicated and passionate about his job. He has trained hard and does not object to new working patterns he objects to being sacked because he questions them. He is no different from any other firefighter in this dispute. They all have harrowing stories that the have seen and been involved in. So until you are in their shoes and deal with what they deal with stop spouting about, money, second jobs, sleeping. Its not about those things.

Thank you Brum! Sense prevails, I just wish more would actually speak to Firefighters and get the picture instead of reading the clap trap in the tabloids! I am sure some write on here just to be confrontational. But thats what this forum is for I suppose. Lets hope this is resolved soon.

Ill say it again for those of you who cant grasp it! These strikes are because of the threat to sack. NOT because of changing shifts. NOT because of money pensions or "perks". Money will stay the same. Pensions will stay the same, "perks" whatever they are, will stay the same. The ffs are striking because they believe (and it has been proven on a document leaked from the lfb), that the 12/12 shifts will result in night closures of certain stations. This is FACT. Believe it or not this is the reason for the strikes. Why dont you go to your local fire station and ask them. Instead of believeing everything you hear from the press just ask the people involved.

A fireman is for life not just for Bonfire night ;-)

frierntastic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > As for striking on 5 Nov, I hope that, if anyone > is injured, or property lost through lack of fire > cover, that they sue. Sue who? The firefighters for striking or the lfb for saying they have adequate cover when they know they dont? Sue assetco for taking on a contract they know they cant honour? Sue LFB for not stopping the strikes? Because they could stop it right now. By lifting the 188. But they choose not to. They choose to allow the strike to go ahead. So who are you going to sue? Maybe all of them? Or are we just blaming the ff's for all this.

I am sure all ff's thank you for you comments native. On behalf of my son I do.

So what are you saying MM, that there shouldn't be public sector workers? that they all are a drain on society? That all sections of society should be in the private sector so that we can return to the victorian Mill owner mentality and that all workers should be subservient and thankful for their lot?

Public sector workers pay tax and so contribute to the whole! They also pay quite a large proportion of their wages into their pension fund. So you are saying that is wrong? That nurses, doctors, police should not have a pension fund. Firefighters pay 11% increasing to 14% I do not know what the police pay into their pensions but would expect it is something similar. So they pay tax, national insurance and private pension whats wrong with that. Are you saying if they get a private pension they shouldnt get a state pension as well? Tell that to the people who have paid into both over the last 50 year or so! They are all sponging off us tax payers are they? In the private sector most companies offer pensions scheme, obviously there are some that don't but the majority do. You can opt in or opt out it is your choice.

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This second job nonsense (and that sleeping on > shifts supports it) has been known for a long > time. > > Whilst it's only human nature to resist change > (esp. change that removes perks), many public > sector workers think they have a preferential > 'right' to these things. > > It's OUR taxes that pay their wages, that fund > their pensions and perks......I don't see why > anyone should have to fund someone else's job > benefits when they no such benefits in their own > employment (and work many more hours than FFs). > > We as taxpayers have a right to demand that public > services are efficient and cost effective. And > like MM I have seen no convincing argument from > the FFU to say that any of the changes will result > in the claims they make with reference to > service. > > Oh and striking on November 5th is just cycnical > and designed to hold the management and us the > public to ransom imo but will achieve nothing. They pay for their pension as well, they pay 11% of their wage and this is increasing to 14%. We pay for pensions in all public sectors but so do the workers, they pay tax as well so infact are funding the pensions twice? They also pay tax one their "second jobs" if of course they have one. My son certainly doesnt!

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Facebook Page "I support London's Finest > Firefighters". > > "5,282 people like this" > > It's not really a figure to be shouting about.. > there are more firefighters than this involved in > the action! Once you take into account family, The Facebook page "I Support London Firefighters" 19,727 people like this 200,000 members > friends, plus affiliated unions etc etc the figure > is dismal..

The FBU argue that it will not improve efficiency, 12hour day shifts are too long and detrimental to working practices. They argue that a 24hour system is better because of the regulated stand down times. Same applies for 8/16, that give day shifts a healthier 8 hour day shift, night shifts extend for 1 hour but again stand down times come into it. I do not understand all the terminology but I understand in principle. No doubt MM will put me right! Iaincourbert is correct,we all have our own opinions on this and I do not think anyone has been persuaded to change their minds by any of the opposing comments. I do know that the FF's are strong in their belief that the LFB has other reasons for the need of shift changes. The 12/12 system will allow the LFB to remove appliances and redistribute FF's thereby closing stations at night. That in turn will make response time longer and increase risks. Some will not agree I am sure but I beg to differ!! Check out facebook page I support London Firefighters and read postings there and you will see the level of commitment.

DJKW why are you back on about pay? thats not the issue is it? Being sacked before agreements are made is! Thats the nutshell, remove the threat and no strikes. Simple.

IainC makes good points I think. Striking on 5th will obviously divide public opinion, I would have thought that the FF's are aware of this but feel that they must bring home their position and show what will be happening if the cuts in service that will be inevitable become reality. If you go onto the FBU website I am sure details of the dispute are explained. I, as a mother of a firefighter can only express how he feels, he has wanted this profession since he was little, it took him three years to get through the procedure and training. Do youo think he would throw all that away just to be militant and try and stick it to management. He is on the front line and is happy to be so, this system has worked for over 30 years, their productivity has exceeded managements demands. We all accept that changes sometimes need to be made and FF's are no exception, they know shift changes are inevitable and are willing to discuss this, but to be threatend with the sack before agreement is made then this is wrong. Dont go on saying this has been argued for 5 years because these negotiations started in June this year. there has been various mentions in the last 5 years about shift changes but no negotiations started. Again see FBU webiste. I will continue to support my son and his colleagues and hope that the public do as well, going by various support websites this is the case. Everyone has their own opinions and this is right, but so is the right to take action. All unions will use whatever means they have for maximum effect, it has always been so and I expect always will. No matter what facts and details are put on here some of you will shout them down and disagree, your right! On an earlier note, the 24hour system works exceptionally well in US and other countries, why not here?

Pearson, are you jealous of firefighters? did you fail the process? Did a union refuse you entry because you was so obstropilous (did I spell it right? sorry if no!) and might give them a bad name.COme on man lighten up! Can you not agree that they have the right to stand up for what they believe in! Its not their fault that other people have shit jobs, or bad working conditions, or not in a union. I have all these but I wouldn't deny anyone their right to protest, why are you different. Thank you Iaincoubert for you comments at least someone understands the issue.

Here we go again, and what do you expect them to do if LFB and Mr Coleman will not negotiate? Just take whatever they put in front of them? Again it is not about shift patterns or money. It is about section 188! If it was just about shift pattrns why wouldnt they accept the 24hour pattern put forward by the FBU. It works on all levels. But its not about that and the LFB, Mr Dobson and Mr Colemn know this. The FBU know this, the FF's know this. I agree to an extent about the RMT but as you will no doubt be aware they is growing unrest in all the unions and the Fire Authority is fuelling the fire. No pun intended! Its easily resolved. Remove section 188!

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your mum making you a fry-up on a Sunday morning. I see and do that every saturday and sunday! Respect!

Hearing from friends and family who attended picket lines, plenty of public support, RMT workers refused to run Jubilee line because would be dangerous pracice wihout proper fire cover. Same will happen again on the 1st. As it is a weekday the potential for major disruption is there! LFB can put whatever spin they like on it, they know that they cannot maintain safe procedures. I expect you are all fed up with me spouting on so I won't any more. Unless i get annoyed again that is! Stay safe everyone, support your London Firefighters!!

Sorry about spellings but comp playing up after baby spilt drink!! Pearson, I get the feeling what ever is said you won't believe anyway so no point in trying! It has been spelt out by plenty of posters including a London Firefighter and others, both sides so what ever you want to think is fine. I and plenty of others know that their cause is a just one and they will continue to fight for their jobs and your fire service! http://www.demotix.com/news/484789/firefighters-strike-after-sack-threat?awesm=fbshare.me_AVjkm