DJKillaQueen

Well Keef the Union had 16 months to come to agreement before the consultation. Sean my father was a driver and Shop Steward through that deregulation process in the 80's. London has a cheaper service (through subsidy) but not necessarily better one than other cities. You won't for example see Liverpools rail and bus services going on strike repeatedly or closing lines/ routes every other weekend for this and that, or breaking down every five minutes. Also, where other fire services in metroplitian cities have already implemented changes to shift patterns (one of which was turned down by he LFBU) there has been improvement in productivity and no downgrade or loss of service. So comparison to bus deregulation (which is not what is being proposed for the fire service btw) is a poor analogy not born out in evidence. Again, how do you explain the changes the LFB are proposing working perfectly well in other cities, with no loss of jobs, increased productivity and better value to tax payers?

Isn't that the one where one tile blew off and the air stewardess was sucked into it and then it gets a bit gruesome....so I'll stop.

Now that I'm looking at the process and results of shift changes in other cities H, it becomes even clearer than the FFU opposition and the claims they make are unfounded (and worse still they know that). In West Yorkshire staff were offered a vote on returning to 10/14 patterns after a settling in period and decided they preferred the new shift patterns. Productivity has gone up and there are no shortfalls in recruitment or any other aspect of the service. Increased productivity is good value for the tax payer and the crucial thing is that in that area the Union did a very good job of negotiation and co-operation which is why they secured an after vote. LFB has talked with those other Fire Services during all the time of shaping it's proposals....learning from their experience (which is why the 11/13 compromise was offered). The proposals for a better more productive and efficient service are based on evidence that shows where improvements will come from. The question is, why in spite of all that the FFU in London can't bring itself to comporise an inch.

I'm not even going to ask why someone might have a rusty ole axe in their hand luggage, but it does seem a bit like after the horse has bolted doesn't it. Now does anyone know where I can get a suitcase square enough to accomodate my Epsom all in one laser printer?

You have to give him credit for that.....he's a very clever businessman.

I'll ask you the same Keef...is 16 months enough time to negotiate? Why didn't the Union accept the 11/13 compromise, accepted by other brigades in other parts of the country, and resulting in no adverse affect to the service?

And just to add the London Commissioner did offer an 11/13 hour split as a compromise but the Unions said no to that too.....it's all about the 15 shift. Both South and West Yorksire accepted an 11/13 hour shift change in 2009 by the way with no extra risk to public witnessed as claimed by those supporting the strikes.

No answer the point...has the union had more than enough time to negotiate...yes or no? There isn't anything more to it than thas been listed in the public domain. The FFU don't want to get rid of their night-time 15 hour shift....that's all there is to it...well tough...because the changes will come no matter how far they jump up and down and no matter how much they choose to alienate the public in doing so. In fact the more I can source the more clear their intrasigence becomes and the more ridiculous the FFU argument looks.

They have had plenty of time to negotiate Sean....enough is enough sometimes......should every management have to wait forever for permission from unions on how to manage their services? The proposed cahnges are perfectly sensible, and will result in no loss of anything to ffs themselves.....just diferent start and finish times each day......it's no big deal.

Here is a document that confirms that proposals on shift patterns were presented to the Union 16 months ago (2/6/09). It also confirms that reports on other related matters were submitted to the union since 2006 (and that is where I think the LFB are starting from in their five year claims). The FFU are also misleading with their claims that they've only had since August to negotiate, which is in fact the date at which the LFB got fed up of waiting for an agreement with the union and issued the forced contract change edict. So now we know the truth. Document here. The unions have had at least 16 months to negotiate on shift patterns and longer for the rest. Plenty of time imo.....and exasperation is exactly the reason as far as I can see for managements decision to terminate old contracts and introduce new ones, all done perfectly within the law.

So why do the LFB say negotiations have been ongoing for five years then?

Fancy entering next year as a duet Waynetta......? We can't do any worse than Wagner surely? I'll bake Louis a cake to be sure we get through.

I agree on the soundbites bob...it does seem scripted at times and looking back to the first series, Simon was far more acerbic in his comments......suddenly he's Mr. Whatever.

It was metaphorical waynetta, and in irony to his comment that he'd shag both of them (Cheryl and Dannii) and that's all they're good for. He deserves whatever anyone says in response to that - he brings it on himself, whereas the non consenting sujects of the photos you posted as 'mingers' didn't deserve the humiliation they might have felt at your use of their images in your 'mingers' thread. It's not a like for like analogy I'm afraid.

Tony Hatch was the villain of his day.....

Granted, she'a not popular bob, but since when does that matter when it comes to judging music acts?

I think it's a reinforcement of the world she lives and works in. But still someone answer the question...just what would qualify someone to judge music if, being head of a succesful music publishing company, being in one of the UK's most successful girl bands, having been a sucessful manager for several sucessful acts, and having worked in the music and tv industry since the age of doesn't qualify a person!

Hang on...I am not declaring Dannii to be some great performing talent (and nor does she)...but she does know the business. You all conveniently forget that her sister is a mega star....you can't get closer to it than that. And yes JK has no versatility as a singer or song writer and only wears a hat because he's pig ugly. That's a very different thing to saying he doesn't know the business (which I haven't said) because he obviously does. One performs the other works behind the scenes...the two are different things, but both reap equal experience and knowledge.

That's entertainment bob....you don;t have to watch it.

Syco and Talkback, last time I checked are making millions of profit every year so they probably know better than you I think. Having said that...what exactly would make someone qualified to judge music....given that it's all subjective in the end anyway, and that most people, with hearing can tell the difference between a good singer and a bad one. Cowell is head of a sucessful music publishing company - what better qualification than that?

Spot on Mac...

She at least has been involved in the business all her life. You don't have to be a multi million album selling artist to know the business or even to be able to sing. However she does have a multi million album selling sister for the record. After all, how many of you have ever sung in tune yet you feel qualified to know what this act ahould or shouldn't be doing. Simon Cowell on that level is less qualifed than her, and Louis just hasn't got a clue as series after series shows. It's just typical male bashing of the female Judges. She has a CV that more than qualifies her to mentor those acts. And she is the only judge that always judges the vocal performance only when deciding which acts to vote off as well.

That can be said for many people when choosing the job/ career they choose, both private and public sector - but once in the system some public sector workers think they are hard done by and deserve more and more (usually egged on by outdated union thinking). It's a bubble. It's also true that many public sector jobs involve excessive workloads, impossible budgets and understaffing but that's also true for much of the private sector too. People would have more sympathy if public sector workers avoided the nonsense that ?35K is a poor salary, or that working more than 40 per week hours is somehow unacceptable. Public spending is not a bottomless pit. Public Sector workers are also in a position where if they strike their employer won't go bankrupt. The same is not true for the small business employing a handful of people. People in the Private Sector have to work harder to keep themselves employed. Have you ever seen what it takes to sack anyone in the public sector? Which is why fixed term contracts will become increasingly used in the Public Sector.

I wouldn't be suprised though if they call it of at the last minute.

LOL....friern I yield to the reprimand I so blatently deserve lol.