Rockets

What is the old Blue Mountain site going to be - agree with you Blue Mountain used to be superb back in the day?!

I understand the rationale based on reduced inner city numbers but it seems a case of biting your nose to spite your face to cut any services in areas like Dulwich where we are already seeing a reduction in rail services and already poor PTAL scores - this is surely going to make things even worse for anyone trying to get into the city from the area? Are any of our councillors voicing their concerns about it or fighting TFL over it?

Looks increasingly as if it is going completely along with a lot of other routes. What's the justification, are people not using it?

Signoria - best coffee in the area too!

That data is from the infamous East Dulwich Grove Central and it does show another increase in traffic levels - in fact, the weekly average is now the highest for that point that it has been since Sept 21's figures on the council's dashboard. It will be very interesting to see the data for all sites in February, March and April as I very much sense the true impact of the LTNs will be seen in the numbers as overall traffic is now climbing back up towards the pre-Covid levels. It is starting to feel very congested again, especially on the boundary roads that are taking the LTN displacement and I very much suspect that will be validated by the monitoring data. Does anyone know when we can expect the council to update the dashboard?

Hey, don?t give the trolls the oxygen???eventually they?ll get bored or banned

The way he rides it's only a matter of time before he comes a cropper. Let's hope he doesn't hurt anyone else in the process.

I love it when journalists do a "why this article is not accurate" piece on other journalists' work and never actually apply the same rigour to their own articles.... https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1528651576314839040?t=gOQOx5fNKnxXp5y8QznsOA&s=19 .

Does anyone know when the council will be updating their monitoring dashboard for data recorded after January - there has definitely been an upward trend in all the monitoring and I suspect the true impact of the LTNs will be seen in the next batch of data? It was interesting the council posted this on their dashboard (https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/improving-our-streets/live-projects/streetspace/traffic-data-analysis): Volumes of traffic in December 2021 were likely decreased by both Christmas and the emergence of the Omicron variant.

It seems this is a problem across the country. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61421199

DKHB - who was arguing over the definition of a trip?

They seem to rotate them weekly - good on whomever is doing it - our kids love them (nearly as much as we do!).

Waseley, if you don't scratch beneath the surface you often don't find out what's actually going on. I, for one, am glad people are taking time to dissect the numbers the council is putting out to justify the "success" of their LTNs because it is clear they are painting a picture that isn't actually happening in reality. And if it wasn't for outlets like this forum a lot of people would be completely oblivious to the spin the council is putting out in support of their LTNs.

I love these and they are becoming more ornate every time they get replaced - a really wonderful idea and wonderful addition to the area. https://www.dulwichsociety.com/news/post-box-toppers-appear-in-dulwich

And the data is starting to show that very clearly - which is probably why some are happily counting down the days to the end of the forum so some of us cannot remind them of the negative impact.....;-)

Oh my??this Manatee just won?t sink. Admin - keep the strength, you do a fantastic job. Ex- but by the same bar do they count a delivery round as a single journey or many short trips? Chris Boardman was wrong to say 25% of journeys in cars are under 1 mile but I suspect he knew what he was doing b6 saying it. In his position he should have known better. It?s deliberately misleading like much of the data we see from the council and others in support of LTNs. It was the reason I was asking for someone from the pro side to decipher the council?s and TFLs contradictory monitoring data. LTNs clearly create huge displacement and not traffic evaporation and the data is really starting to amplify that as the benefit from pandemic traffic reductions are lessened.

That's why I checked Boardman's claims as I just couldn't believe it was that high. I have relatives who live in the country and they drive a lot because there is no other option - for example their nearest supermarket is 12 miles away - they don't drive short distances because there is nothing to drive to - the shortest trip they do is to the village pub and that is always done on foot for obvious reasons!

Mark Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm afraid it is: > > In 2020, 25% of trips were under 1 mile, and 71% > under 5 miles. > Source: National Travel Survey 2020 > https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national- > travel-survey-2020/national-travel-survey-2020#:~: > text=Journey%20lengths,-Chart%203%3A%20Mode&text=I > n%202020%2C%2025%25%20of%20trips,and%2068%25%20und > er%205%20miles. But a trip is not a car journey. Look at the chart on the link you sent - it shows 81% of trips under a mile were walked. About 14% are cars/vans and I would love to know how they categorise the use of vans - how do they categorise a delivery van doing multiple stops for example? 14% is still too high but nowhere near the 25% he claimed and he claimed this for cars - it's very misleading and he should know better in his role.

Just heard Chris Boardman on Radio 5 talking about the new e-bike try-before-you-buy pilots in Manchester which is a really good idea but in the interview he said that a quarter of car journeys in the UK are under 1 mile - where is he getting that stat from? That's not correct is it?

legalalien Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That sounds as though there has been a significant > transfer of traffic from local roads to the SRN, > which is what those in favour want to happen and > which those against, and on main roads aren?t in > favour of in circumstances where the outcome is to > overwhelm the SRN roads? > > Intuitively it feels as though there should be a > combined figure covering local roads and TfL > roads. But I?m not quite sure how that would work. > Unless you can take a snapshot of ALL the traffic > in the area at various set points in time and then > compare with previous set points in time, surely > any reductions / increases that you measure only > show for certain that traffic at particular points > has increased / decreased but can?t tell you what > the overall reduction is, as traffic may have > diverted from/ to non- measured routes? I?m not > explaining very well, but for eg you can say a > reduction of 21000 vehicles on certain routes (and > even then could be some double counting I suspect > as presumably one vehicle could disappear from say > three counts depending on its route- or is that > adjusted for?), but there?s no way of knowing > whether the 21000 cars have popped up on other > roads that aren?t being measured? And we have to remember that the council's monitoring area originally only ran only as far as (and not including) Lordship Lane in the very early days of this programme. Additionally remember their initial monitoring efforts were only on the closed roads (remember the phantom monitoring strip killer) and they had to be forced to install strips on Lordship lane etc (which they subsequently moved to a more monitoring advantageous position towards Melford). I very much suspect they knew all along what the impact was going to be and have done their utmost to try and spin the narrative their way. Welcome back Rahx3.....are you goi.....nah I won't waste my time ;-) That initiative you link to is very good - the app is a great idea but not sure CPZs are necessary around every school, seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut and no-one should be encouraging the council to install more CPZs - surely school streets would be a much better idea? If this was adopted you're pretty much saying you need CPZs on every street across Dulwich - else you just move the problem a couple of streets away. I would love to know what the council are doing to tackle the school run problem - that site gives some sobering stats on the issue for the Dulwich area and the influx (during term-time) of thousands of pupils from beyond a 3 mile catchment area. Are the council even talking to schools about what they can do?

A good Mexican would be very welcome. I think the days of good independent outlets are dwindling in Dulwich unfortunately. Apparently the Dulwich demographic is changing once again and there has been an influx of monied folks from Chelsea, Islington and Essex moving to Dulwich for the greener spaces and proximity to London and are the only ones able to afford the ludicrous house prices that have been seen post pandemic. I think that is why we are seeing chains like Joe & The Juice and Megan's opening outlets here - chasing the ?. Interesting to see places like Walter's opening in West Dulwich, I wonder if the independent places are being pushed a little further out (although you could argue Walter's is part of a group rather than a chain).

Ex- not entirely correct, there's another twist and you, I think, highlight where the council has been trying to hide/mislead on what is actually going on. "Traffic has been rising across Southwark since the end of the 2021 COVID-19 lockdown, and was at 92% of pre-COVID levels in November 2021 at count points in the north of the borough, and above pre-COVID levels on the TfL network near Dulwich" - Southwark Council Dashboard. So from this we can ascertain that in the north of Southwark the traffic levels are lower than pre-Covid times - that's understandable and in line with expectations as travel/commuting habits change post-pandemic. The council have also been claiming 21,000 fewer journeys in Dulwich but given what they are saying about TFL network traffic levels around Dulwich that doesn't make much sense - in fact it is completely contradictory. But this where it gets interesting because there's always been the issue of "boundary roads" and whether the council counts those as part of the LTN impact area. I very much believe that what we are seeing here is LTN displacement in action. That the supposed reduction in journeys "within Dulwich" are just being pushed from the LTN areas onto boundary roads - and those boundary roads are the ones monitored by TFL - A205, Lordship Lane, EDG, Croxted Road - in other words the main arterial routes around Dulwich. It wasn't felt in the early days after the pandemic because the general reduction in traffic wasn't being modelled by the council - it was all being spun as "good news" of lower traffic (they claimed because of the LTNs). This was always the worry that as things started to return to normal the squeeze of the LTNs would be felt by the surrounding roads at a greatest rate. It's why we can now explain how, despite of claims traffic being greatly reduced across the whole borough after the pandemic there were still roads in Dulwich that were showing increases in traffic and that could only be because of displacement. Look at the latest info on the council's dashboard (https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/improving-our-streets/live-projects/streetspace/traffic-data-analysis) and look at weekday am peaks for the roads they monitor in Dulwich (which I suspect are the TFL monitored roads because they are key bus routes) - many of them are consistently higher than pre-Covid and that should be ringing alarm bells because we haven't seen a return to overall pre-pandemic traffic patterns in London yet (maybe we never will but the trend is alarming). And I bet the A205 is even worse. With each data set it demonstrates that these are the roads soaking up the displacement as traffic routes around the closures. Which was inevitable from day one and is certainly a long way from the success criteria set by the council for LTNs. Interested to hear you thoughts.

ohthehugemanateeLTN4 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Interesting! Several users mass spamming the same > questions (and variations thereof) repeatedly is > fine by the standards of this forum. Pointing this > out and inviting them to go back through the last > few pages of their own spam to actually engage > with my reply is an insta ban! > > Do I suspect a teensy bit of anti LTN bias here? Manatee - that's your 3rd ban isn't it? Whatever you're doing wrong you're doing it repeatedly...admin obviously knows something we don't... Ex- that is a weird response from the system maybe add East Dulwich to the text?

Come on, one of you must be brave enough to interpret the statement from the council.....you all have strong opinions on pretty much everything else to do with LTNs...why can't you take a look at the below and give is your thoughts....what could possibly be the problem...;-) "Traffic has been rising across Southwark since the end of the 2021 COVID-19 lockdown, and was at 92% of pre-COVID levels in November 2021 at count points in the north of the borough, and above pre-COVID levels on the TfL network near Dulwich" - Southwark Council Dashboard.

Waseley - agree with your annoyance at bad drivers - we all feel the same pain and frustration when people act selfishly. The deafening silence on my challenge to some of the loudest pro-LTN cheerleaders to dissect the council's own numbers is not surprising - they are acting selfishly and deliberately ignoring the facts that tell a very different story to the one they like to peddle. This note from the council speaks volumes and demonstrates LTN displacement in full effect and why Dulwich should never have been chosen for LTNs on the basis of PTALs alone.... "Traffic has been rising across Southwark since the end of the 2021 COVID-19 lockdown, and was at 92% of pre-COVID levels in November 2021 at count points in the north of the borough, and above pre-COVID levels on the TfL network near Dulwich" - Southwark Council Dashboard.