westof

Mrs Danvers you are right about the children with well-educated parents, but I'm thinking more of bright children who DON'T have well-educated parents who(possibly even know how to) support them in the ways you describe - if they are let down by school as well, then they are more likely to end up in the lower sets in Y7. (Which is fine if they are then able to progress upwards, but that doesn't always happen, and with some children it can leave resentment that they were initially in the bottom sets, even if that was (attainment wise) the right place for them at the time). (????s has got there before me)

JessM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If your kids are at a good primary school, with a > good teacher, they won't have gaps in their > knowledge and will have been challenged to achieve > their potential. > > So the perceived problem is not only one of the > secondary schools being of varying quality, but > also the primaries. When children start secondary school, if they are setted / streamed in a comprehensive school, then their position (which reflects their current level of achievement) is pretty much determined by the quality of primary school education they've had up to that point. A couple of years later in a decent school with good teaching, things have often shaken up quite a bit - some of this may be down to individual children blossoming later, but I think it's mainly due to the gaps being filled in. What really shocked me with some Year 7 streaming, is that because the quality of primary education that a child receives is so linked to the parents' ability to get them into the better schools, and because London has such varied social extremes - that you could have pretty much set the children according to their parents class & race & they would have ended up in the same sets. (Middle class white children dominating the upper sets, in case anyone needs it spelling out). Though as I said in the paragraph above, at least in a good school, children in the lower sets will be able to move up as they benefit from good teaching (or as they move up the school, then sets get re-shuffled with more of them designated as higher ability). With hopefully the setting in the upper years being a more genuine reflection of children's innate ability.

> I think the answer is for schools in challenging > areas to pool their bright pupils with bright > teachers+university academics for a small > proportion of the week. They do this in Bristol. > Not seen any evidence (yet) of such a scheme in > this area. This is a great idea, also good for those of us with middling, average, maybe just non-academic but lovely and hardworking children, who'd like to send them to a school where children of all abilities including the super-brainy are nurtured. Or where maybe if they weren't noticeably academic at age 10, if they shone later they could end up in the top set with the brainy kids. That said, I can understand people sending their children to a grammar if they can, & if it's the right fit for them (e.g. they don't need loads of tutoring to get in) - we all do the best we can by our individual children. But I'd much prefer a situation where Grammars weren't needed (or perceived to be needed). To wonderwoman: Year 5 is not too early at all to start wondering about grammars - I have a feeling some of the grammar exams are taken very early in Year 6? So if you leave it until you start looking round Secondary School Open Days in the autumn of Year 6, you may have missed the boat. And if you are only now thinking about grammar entrance in Y5 then you hardly come under the category of 'parent who's tutored their child since birth' ;-) - you have nothing to lose by giving it a go.

minder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've often wondered why Dulwich Hamlet has this > entrance at age 7 while every other state school > in Southwark and surrounding areas have the normal > Reception age entrance. I suppose it makes sense in a traditionally private school area if the local private schools have an age 7 intake. Otherwise you get a 4-11 primary but then loads of children leave at age 7 (& get replaced off the waiting list) which makes for an unstable school population. If you formalise the split at age 7, it's less of an issue. Plus there is some logic to having 4-7 school and a 7-11 one. I grew up in a county where the (state) schooling was split into Infants/Lower School, then Middle School (9-12) then Upper School (13-16/18) and I intially found the prospect of 4-11 primary schools quite alarming when I moved to London. Though I think going through school admissions every 4 years would tip London parents over the edge!

It's fair to point out though, that Ofsted (from reading the report) seemed to be aware of this years pass dip when they judged the school as 'Good' for teaching, which is interesting. The report bears a detailed read, with that in mind. As a parent whose child will be doing GCSE's in a couple of years, I am concerned about what happened this year, but I do have confidence in what they are currently doing with her cohort.

I'm very happy with this report. If anything I have more confidence in it than the previous somewhat gushy full report from a couple of years back. I'm glad they've noted specific things to be improved - always a bit sus if there's nothing to be worked on. Staff & pupils shoud be very proud!

Thanks for replying - I'm annoyed that I missed it, but glad that there was one this month.

Anyone know if it was last night or next Friday? I had a reminder in my calendar, then had a stupidly busy day at work & didn't check it till bedtime.

I agree with the last few posts about the correlation between class insecurity & consciousness of accents. All I'd add, is that some people do seem naturally able to flit between accents much easier than others. I'm thinking anecdotally of adult siblings I know who've had the same background (either regional or poshness) where one has been much better at adapting their accent to wherever they end up, while the other seems unable to change their childhood accent. I wonder if it really is an annate ability, or whether exposure at an early age makes you more able to accent flip? I suppose even siblings with a year or so's difference in age might have been exposed to different accents at different ages, or one may have been at nursery early while the other stayed longer within the family - would that kind of thing make enough difference?

I found lists of Governors on Harris Girls (theres a 'Meet our Governors' page under the 'About' tag) & Evelyn Grace - they were the only two I looked for. One's a 'Harris' school, the other an 'Ark' one - which I mention as both Harris & Ark are comparatively big organisations with very up-to-date website services shared by all their schools. Other schools websites are a bit hit & miss in terms of user-friendliness & being kept up to date - I really don't think there's much to read into that. It was always perfectly possible to contact school governors (via the school but confidentially from the school if needed) before school websites were common.

Plenty of secondary schools do have a list of governors on their website - the Ark & Harris schools all seem to for a start. The chair of governors (I assume the current one) is named on the main Ofsted report & on Wikipedia. Schools that do list governors names don't usually publish personal contact details anyway, so I think it would be expected to contact Governors via the school, in any case.

Oggy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I watched > this piece when it went out last night with my son > who is in year 9, doing well academically, happy, > feeling safe, and fiercely proud of his school. > He was in tears by the end and I don't blame him. You could be describing my daughter - I didn't have the heart to watch it with her last night, though I expect I will at some point. Whether or not this years results reflect badly on past practice, I have no doubts that after this investigation, current exam practice is going to be good. And if there's been staff instability, or staff under stress - without implying that management practices are blameless - I'm well aware that much of it may have been down the very public scrutiny that the school has been under. Prickle - (sorry to answer a questin you've asked another person) - there is never nothing to worry about in any school.

Just like to add - I'm aware that threads discussing Kingsdale have a tendency to get hijacked & closed down. I wonder if it would be possible to move the relevant discussion to a separate thread, as this thread on GCSE results is worth saving, including the speculation as to why Kingsdale hasn't released theirs.

> > "I don't see how the school can win - but more > importantly I can only see how local families and > children can lose out" > > I agree with you here - but are you saying that > the school is blameless? I'm in agreement with Curmudgeon's post, particularly the bit you've highlighted here. It's perfectly possible to hold that view without thinking the school is 100% blameless with regard to exam malpractice. What we don't know is whether they were worse than the 100 or so other schools which were investigated quietly & told to clean their act, or guided towards better practice. 15 months after an investigation started, I would hope those schools were either modelling excellent exam practice, or deemed no longer fit to run exams. What we do know is that in the case of Kingsdale, there are parties (whether or not these are the original whistleblowers) who are determined to bring this into public scrutiny again and again. The tone of the Channel 4 report was very much a case of: This school is an academy: therefore unaccountable & this is the major problem. It's worth noting that if there was exam malpractice of any scale (however major or minor, without the full report we cannot tell), it was almost certainly also going on during the time before the school became an academy. If I am correct the school only moved towards becoming an academy in the months shortly before the initial public whistleblowing.

Speaking as a tenant not a landlord, but my rented flat is managed by Burnet Ware, & they are very professional & always prompt with maintenance. They do quarterly inspections which probably helps keep on top of things. As a tenant, I much prefer them to someone like Foxtons or Winkworths - local & more personal & maybe more conscious of local reputation thana big chain would be.

Hi Rebecca There's Lilford Nursery which is a few minutes walk from Loughborough Junction. I don't know much about the nursery, but they do pick-ups from a few local primary schools.

I've just watched "The Secret History of our Streets", about the history of Deptford High Street. About 45 minutes in, a preacher, who seems to spend a lot of time preaching to the Deptford street drinkers, described something he called "Spiritual Mapping" where he walks around the streets at night, praying & chanting outside people's houses. It immediately reminded me of this thread, and I wondered if he ever strayed as far as East Dulwich, but now I've re-read the thread, it doesn't sound much like him after all - this bloke seemed more anti-demons than demonic, though I suppose it might sound much the same in the small hours of the morning.

Kaska Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sanne Panne Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Kaska Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > None of my choices,a school 3 miles away in > > Herne > > > Hill...sob > > > > Oh no!! 3 miles is a lot! Which school did you > > get? St Judes, St Saviour? Not aware of any > other > > schools that are technically in Herne Hill?? > > > Jessop... P'raps not much consolation for you (since 3 miles really is unreasonably far to go at reception age) but maybe for anyone more on the Herne Hill side who's been allocated there... but Jessop has (only just this week) had an outstanding Ofsted report. Jessop Ofsted It has new buildings & AFAIK has moved from 1 form to 2 form entry over the past few years so hopefully if it starts to attract more parents local to it, that may ease the pressure a bit on very over-subscribed Herne Hill / West Dulwich schools like Rosendale. Anyway, good luck Kaska on getting things sorted out & hope you eventually end up with something in reasonable distance to you!

There's also Camley Street Natural Park if you want somewhere right by St Pancras as well (it's signposted from the back entrance of the station & about a 5 minute walk). It's really lovely on a sunny day (don't remember a cafe or much shelter of it's raining) but it does have lots of open access to water, so perhaps not ideal for herding toddlers while adults catch up ;-) though in other circumstances it's a lovely place for little ones.

Townleygreen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The school had no desire to become fee paying, but > that was forced upon it. And I believe that the > current chairman of governors has the ultimate aim > of making the school once again free to those > whose incomes are below a certain level. That > cannot be achieved overnight - of course - but it > is a fine aim which many in the area might benefit > from if they wished, one day.> > The income from the Dulwich estates (sic) is > shared between DC, JAGs, Alleyns, St Olaves and a > few other schools, according to Edward Alleyn's > original (modified) bequest. That's really interesting (the history and the future aims), and AFAIK the other schools in the Dulwich Foundation (or whatever it's called) are state schools in East London?

A friend's son got an assisted place (or maybe a scholarship, not sure) to Dulwich in 1996, which must have been one of the last places if it was an assisted one. I wasn't a parent then, hadn't heard of Dulwich College & wasn't aware of quite what an achievement it was for his son to get the place (they could never have afforded it without the means testing) - but I do remember that back then London state schools were generally held to be dreadful places & I pretty much assumed I'd end up moving out of London when I had children, even though I love the place. The Evening Standard is now reporting that state schools in London are the best state schools in the country. I'm very glad that aspect has changed at least, though I expect it was investment in general that had the main effect, and abolishing the assisted places was just a drop in the ocean. Still, most private schools do seem to have managed to find ways of running their own means-tested schemes even without government help, which is great for the children that can still benefit from that kind of education.

emilydrab, that's lovely news about Deptford Green. (& presumably even better if you might end up being able to choose between two schools you like, though that can bring it's own stress as you have to make a decision all over again...) I've just looked through to the newsletters on the Deptford Green website (slow Friday at work ;-)) & it looks like there's loads of good stuff going on there, great to know your experiences back that up having visited.

prickle Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To be fair, this is a slur that has been made from > both sides. Everyone has their own agenda and on > this forum, you have to take it at face value. Not > sure I like the increasingly personal angle this > debate is taking ? I think you are right about this, and the value of being able to have an open forum where matters can be discussed anonymously (if people wish) and openly, outweighs the fact that not everyone may not be what they seem. It's probably best for anyone reading to draw their own conclusions, though it's fair for posters to respond if they are personally questioned on their motives. I personally will try not to comment further in this respect.

Metallic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Debster99, "I'm all right Jack" comes to mind. > And may I point out before doing as I'm told, that > this is the only subject you have posted about on > the EDF, maybe you are a staff member with an > agenda to pursue. > > But quite right, I will wait and see. This is something you bring up quite a lot, it's an easy slur to make - I think it's fairly easy to recognise a parent from the way they post. Debster99 has already mentioned that she doesn't live in East Dulwich. I expect, like me, she only pops into the EDF now & again to have a look at what people are saying about Kingsdale this week. Equally, I'm sure none of the posters here who stir things up, bring nothing positive to the discussion, and focus on what should have been done rather than what might be done to move things forward, are staff members with an agenda to pursue. Because that might rather make a mockery of the concerns expressed to the OFSTED inspectors. I would actually rather believe there are some genuine concerns within the school that the inspection has brought out, and hope that these can dealt with positively.

But if, as yuo say, the results have yet to be published, then there is really nothing the school can say at this point?