westof

I don't know a great deal > about income support, but I understand that if you > earn under ?16,000 per annum but work more than 15 > hours, then you are entitled to working Tax > Credits. If people claiming this benefit do not > know that they are also eligible to claim free > school meals, then I believe this is the issue > that should be addressed, rather than just > ignoring the problem by giving school meals to > everyone, regardless of income. Possibly not relevant to the general gist of your argument, but as I understand it, as soon as you are working enough hours to claim Working Tax Credit, you lose your entitlement to Free School Meals full stop, even if you are on minumum wage (?12K-ish? per annum). That's why children suddenly start taking in packed lunches (cheaper than paying for school meals) when their mum's go back to work & they lose their FSM entitlement... I think many more poor families in Southwark will benefit from the universal free meals, than there are affluent families who don't need them.

> I did some filming at a couple of free schools > recently: the Toby Young one in Hammersmith and > one near Stockwell. I was really impressed by what > I saw. The kids were mega disciplined, the > teachers said they seemed to actually like having > stricter boundaries where there is an absolute > zero tolerance of any disruption in class. The > teachers seemed really passionate about the > schools. The curriculum offered things like Latin > and other languages kids wouldn't get to learn > otherwise. Sounds like the Ark Academies... (Globe, Walworth, Evelyn Grace). > But what impressed me the most was that > there is no selection process: if you fall within > the catchment area and you apply, you're in. > Explain to me how that is divisive, especially > when the catchment areas are inner city areas like > Hammersmith and Stockwell. Using catchment / distance can easily become selection-by-income once house prices near to the school start to rise - unless the school is completely surrounded by social housing, and London isn't like that.

That sounds brilliant - since they actually sort & recycle the worn out shoes for building materials - just what I have been looking for!

Mrs TP Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Our primary headteacher explained the list order > to us that if for example you met the criteria for > and could be offered places at your 2nd, 4th and > 6th choices then you would be offered a place at > the highest ranking so your 2nd choice and you > would never actually find out what others you > could also have got into. This is absolutely correct, also the schools do NOT know from your application whether you have placed them 1st or 6th when they consider the application. > The schools don't know > your order ranking (but I understand will ask your > child at any auditions / interviews) and can't say > 'oh we will give our first places to those who > choose us 1st'. I think they just ask this, because in the past, people have assumed that if they pass the scholarship they will automatically get an offer from Kingsdale - but in fact if they had put another school first & then been offered a place (e.g. Charter when they live on the doorstep), their Kingsdale place is automatically rejected in the first round of offers. Although I can also see why they would want to know if people are putting them first or not, since it's in any school's interest to know if their popularity is rising or falling (it shouldn't matter but it does), so perhaps if they are asking then it proves they really don't get to find out from the application? Maybe some kind of anonymised questionnaire would be better - it would at least stop the rumours that they are asking for the wrong reasons. You really do have to just put the choices in the order YOU want though - e.g. if Charter would be best for you, but you would settle for Kingsdale-with-a-music-scholarship, then put Charter first even if you take the aptitude test. I do understand your frustration with the entire process - if all you want is for your child to go to a decent school locally, then having selectives in Wandsworth & Sutton is no consolation. I'd like to say you will get through it mentally unscarred, but then I remember that was the year I developed my bald patch ::o (am not a bloke btw).

And strange as it may seem to you, I think the 'less academically able' of us actually added to that pool of creativity because we were in a stable, flourishing environment where we were all valued :).

new mother you have some quite odd ideas about how state schools operate. At the comprehensive school I went to, which didn't have streams but did have have sets for subjects like English & Maths, most of the sixth form went on to university & a few every year made it to Oxford or Cambridge - I think they were probably being academically stretched enough. They didn't fail once they got there either, because it was a large school and so they were able to be part of a sizable high-ability peer group - very far from being the sole top pupil in a mixed ability class. I don't think it did them any harm to have been part of a school community (assemblies, P.E., school plays, music, debates etc) with children who were studying car maintenance & looking for apprenticeships, in fact quite the contrary it added to their experience of life. OK - that was a comprehensive in a reasonably affluent rural market town - the kind that usually does alright anyway. The kind of school which people assured me didn't exist in inner London which was full of sink schools & terrible social problems. Hand on heart, I can say that my daughter's school & her experiences there are really not much different (certainly not in any negative way) from the school I went to, and her school certainly isn't the only one round here like that. I think I understand where you are coming from with respect to it being good for an academic child to be educated with other academic children - it's great when you get a pool of clever children together and they can all all buzz off each other's creativity & potential. But when comprehensives are allowed to flourish, you do still actually get that because there's a big enough pool of children for that to happen.

(I've just realised that I probably do agree with the basic premise: "Since when did getting into secondary school become an X-Factor audition?" even though the rest of the OP makes no sense to me)

As I understand it, the banding system isn't in place to give academically able children more choice of schools, but rather to allow schools to take in a full range of children with a normal distribution of abilities - I'm in favour of it because I want my child to be educated in an environment like this. But it might actually make it harder for an individual child to get the school of their choice if they happen to be in a 'popular' band that year. I agree about the huge effect a single music teacher can have - even in just inspiring children to go for a music scholarship when they might never have considered it. (I'm so glad we didn't do the one at Aske's though, the 'unscary' and positive experience I described was at Kingsdale). The OP and new mother are quite wrong to say that the system doesn't recognise academic children - a)there are plenty of schools where that is the specific selection criteria, and b)academic & hardworking children are also nurtured & valued in schools that don't select academically. Particularly nonsensical to suggest that you can be rewarded for everything except being clever & hardworking - where on earth do you get that idea? However the mish-mash of selection processes & specialisms is a complete nonsense overall, I agree with prickle that the system is wrong if it ends up with us forcing children through these hoops just to get a place at a school.

Mrs TP Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So a child with above average musical ability has > the opportunity to get into a particular state > school regardless of where they live to access > 'teachers with particular skills in that area'. > > However, a child with above average academic > abilities has no chance of gaining entry to a > particular state school to take advantage of the > teaching there if they do not fall within the > distance criteria / lottery banding. > > You do have point here - it's ridiculous that every school's over-subscription can be different from every other, and of course leads to children who fall through the gaps through the fact of their location. But I'm not sure about your second paragraph - I thought that you could apply for academically selective places at (for instance) Graveney, Burntwood and indeed the Grammar Schools in distant Sutton, however far away you lived from them?

Yes, they really aren't X-Factor type auditions (unless you are referring to the large numbers applying & the processing that involves) just quite unscary aptitude tests. And I thought some non-Grammar (Foundation?) schools were allowed to select a percentage on academic ability - isn't that what schools like Graveny & Burntwood do?. Maybe just up to the school what they choose to select their allowed percentage on?

Charles Edward Brooke School in Lambeth, near Camberwell, has a music & performing arts specialism, and music scholarships (10% of intake). I've been to open days & concerts there, and was impressed by the support for music, and the confident performances.

When I was skint(er)I used to get my daughter's feet measured at Clarks, then scour Ebay for Clarks or Startrite of the right size & width... I know it's not ideal to wear pre-worn shoes, but the ones I bought were much much better quality - and probably better for her feet - than the cheaper new shoes I could have paid the same money for, and which would in any case have come from shops or market stalls where they don't pay attention to the fitting. Some of the shoes I bought from ebay were hardly worn at all, and I don't think the pre-worn thing is a huge issue with soft shoes anyway. We used to do a lot of walking and her feet have turned out fine :). Just note when you sell that they are scuffed, & take decent photos of the soles so people can see how worn they are.

Just noticed a tiny paragraph buried at the bottom of this article in yesterday's Evening Standard... "An investigation by exam boards into claims of cheating at Kingsdale Foundation School in Dulwich is looking at vocational qualifications, after initially focusing on AS-levels and GCSEs so that results can be given out on time, said a source. It has been alleged pupils were given too much help with exams. Head Steve Morrison said awarding bodies were satisfied the integrity of GCSEs and AS-levels was not impaired" Good news so far (for the GCSE & AS-level students at least).

I've had great food at Cafe Prov - have only ever been in the evening though, so I can't comment on it's daytime menu.

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Nom de plume Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > the ideologocally pure but less > successful schools nearby? Genuinely curious - can you actually name me an "ideologocally pure" local school?

Nom de plume Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As a parent did you apply to Kingsdale and it's > dubious academy status or did you send your > children to the ideologocally pure but less > successful schools nearby? Anyone with a child in the current Year 7 or older - i.e. all the curretn pupils - will have applied before the school considered academy status. The decision to encourage outstanding schools to become academies only came in with the present govt. People applying for Year 7 to start this September, I also doubt if they would have been aware of the change to academy status as AFAIK it wasn't confirmed until after applications went in in October 2010. As I understand it, the decision to become an academy was made for pragmatic reasons and not to jump on any kind of bandwagon.

I've just clicked the link - I think it's relevant to note that the questionnaire seems to be for any "parents/carers whose children have applied for a Southwark secondary school place", whether or not they actually live in Southwark. I can't get further than the first page from work though.

This seems to be a handy map - I'm not sure how up to date it is, though.

There are children living 5 - 10 minutes walk from Evelyn Grace, who go to to Charter - I assume admitted on distance. (Though some would have started Y7 before Evelyn Grace opened). If more children from Herne Hill start to go to Evelyn Grace, then it would mean less pressure for places at Charter, so it is quite relevant to discussion about places in Southwark. I don't think Evelyn Grace has any problems filling it's spaces though! It may be a boot camp, but it seems to be a good one. According to their website, they are running a waiting list & expecting appeals this year. If Evelyn Grace is doing well, then perhaps that's one reason why the proposed free school in Lambeth seems to have a similar pattern. (Mind you, I don't think even Evelyn Grace has an "Anti-Street Culture Club", that seems to come from somewhere else entirely).

CityMum Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...so why are we > fragmenting it further by introducing more single > sex schools... The problem is, perhaps, that in Southwark the system at secondary level is already fragmented to the point where there is no "we". It's past the point of no return, just a bunch of individual schools all trying to do the best for themselves. This BBC article says that "in the case of the London borough of Southwark, nearly 70% of its secondary schools are academies" but doesn't say that (AFAIK) the remaining schools are all faith schools. Don't think it's a coincidence that Southwark has one of the highest number of children not getting one of their six choices, or getting no place at all in the first round.

Southwark Music Services saturday centres? It looks similar to the Lambeth set up, where you try out a different instrument every term or so. Or JACMC (James Allen Community Music Centre), but I think you had to commit to learning one instrument for a whole year. I don't have direct experience of either, but they look worth finding out about.

btw - Jessop School is also next door to the Tippett Centre where Lambeth Music Services runs a Saturday school. I'm not sure whether you actually need to live in Lambeth or just be attending a Lambeth school to enrol, well worth finding out if its the latter.

SteamedPudding Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi, I'm new to this forum and just following the > thread. We live in Southwark but right on the > boarder with Lambeth and have been offered a place > at Jessop - it was our 6th choice. Does anyone > know anything about it? Or know people who have > been? Thanks! Hi - my daughter went to Jessop from reception through to Year 6 (left last year), a few years ago the school was seen as a bit unpopular but I'd say it was doing really well now. Everyone is really on the ball there. It's federated with Stockwell Primary, which has worked really well for it, there are new buildings, a lovely playground, AFAIK it's now moved from 1 form entry to 2 form entry and there are a lot of really good things going on. It's also linked in with London Music Masters / Bridge Project & has a great music teacher.

That's interesting, Fuschia. Though it does make it even harder to see how schools could solve the problem as defined by James Barber of ?Southwark secondary schools taking so many none Southwark kids?. A circle drawn around Kingsdale which reached as far as the East Dulwich apparent black hole for schools, would have to be so big it covered more of Lambeth, Lewisham, Bromley & Croydon boroughs than it did Southwark. And since much of the Southwark slice of the circle is taken up by Sydenham Woods, Dulwich Park, playing fields etc, that would put Southwark children at even more of a disadvantage. A plain lottery with no catchment seems to at least give Southwark children the same chance of getting in, as children from any other borough. (The Harris Crystal Palace lottery is 90% from Zone A & 10% from Zone B, btw, with Zone A being a 2 mile radius - according to their website).