Earl Aelfheah

I defy anyone to look at the picture above and claim that there is any reason to cross the bus lane unless you're driving in it before making the turn into Overhill. Overhill is a one way street and the turn is wide.

You think he didn't' get a fine for using the bus lane prior to turning into Overhill Road? Maybe he's posted across several threads on behalf of someone else this happened to. OK, I'll rephrase: Drive in a TFL bus lane before turning left, and you'll get a fine from TFL.

I've addressed this on the LTN thread.

We now have multiple threads about an individual having got caught driving in a bus lane and how this is not a consequence of their actions, but somehow a Southwark Council conspiracy. ...it's rather embarassing.

Drive in a bus lane and you'll get a fine from TFL just as you did from Southwark.

Do it. Drive into the bus lane before turning left and see if TFL issue you with a fine, exactly as Southwark did. Or alternatively, just don't drive in the bus lane.

"Road safety and public realm improvements would include things like filtered streets, bike lanes, expanded pedestrian spaces etc." (👆🏾this one) Road safety and public realm improvements would include things like filtered streets, bike lanes, expanded pedestrian spaces etc. ...and again, this is a thread about CPZ. Not an LTN introduced 4 years ago. Not about someone being annoyed they got caught in a bus lane.

You didn't read my last post. Read it again.

I said the Dulwich LTN was initially funded by central government. I also pointed out that yes, surplus could be used for filtered streets, public realm improvements etc. I linked to the detailed regulations which lays out the detail. Honestly, this is tedious. If you think the council is introducing a CPZ for the purposes of generating income, or that they are allocating money from the surplus in ways that break the regulations, then you should make a complaint to the Local Government & Social Care Ombudsman; rather than the constant speculation, conspiracy and innuendo. All this because you got caught in a bus lane

This is what you said: TFL guidance is not that they give you 20 metres grace if turning left into a junction across a bus lane. Try it. You will get fined (again).

Literally it has been pointed out that yes, surplus can be used for various things including filtered streets, bike lanes, expanded pedestrian spaces multiple times. You've been linked to the relevant legislation, you've been linked to Southwark's budget. Now that information has landed (several pages later 🙄) you seem to think you've uncovered some secret conspiracy. You do understand that all the words people have written are recorded right and that LA spending and regulation is not hidden. We now have people trying to suggest that because they got fined for driving in a bus lane that it's somehow relevant to a CPZ and changes made to a junction 4 years ago. I would suggest that the simpler explanation is that they got fined for driving in a bus lane because they were driving in a bus lane. The council cannot introduce a CPZ for the purposes of generating income. If you think that this is what they're doing, then you should make a complaint to the Local Government & Social Care Ombudsman.

If you're really interested in local authority funding / budgets, why don't you look at the publicly available financial statements published online and / or write to your councillor? Despite what some believe, there is no great secrecy. I understand that you don't like the changes to road layout introduced several years ago, but it's really not linked to controlled parking or enforcement of bus lanes in the way you think (i.e. some sort of conspiracy). Southwark are fairly clear about the rationale for a CPZ (whether you agree or not is completely different) and the fact that a monomaniac got caught in a bus lane is not really relevant to any of this.

Not a personal attack. Rockets has admitted believing that TFL 'rules' are that you can drive in a bus lane to turn left. This is simply untrue. You can read the signs, their guidance to drivers on their website and the relevant rules in the highway code. He seems to think it's 'unfair' that Southwark have fined him, and that TFL would not have. Again, this is not true. What he has done is search for information (in this case finding an appendix, to a schedule in an agreement with a third party enforcement agent) that he thinks 'proves' that he was in the right to be in a bus lane. But of course he was not. There is a big difference from the rules in place and the circumstances under which a LA decides it's worth the time and cost of pursuing an appeal (and possibly legal action) against a traffic offender. It's (another) example of Rockets searching for snippets of information that he thinks confirms what he would like to believe, whilst ignoring other more relevant guidance, and all relevant context. If you insist on driving in TFL bus lanes to make a left turn you will get fined. Suggesting otherwise is extremely misleading and irresponsible. But if you would like to try it first mate and see what happens, then please be my guest.

...all this because you got caught in a bus lane and can't just own it.

Have you still not read the regulations around how this income is spent? It's not secret. You haven't 'uncovered' anything. Yes, any surplus generated can be used for public realm improvements, road safety measures and other things - just read the links if you're actually interested. But this is all irrelevant. There is a far simpler question one can ask to determine whether the bus lane is part of a huge conspiracy or not - is it impossible, or even difficult to turn from Lordship Lane into Overhill Road (a one-way street) without driving in the bus lane? It clearly is not. The reason people enter the bus lane is to undertake queuing traffic. If you decided to use the bus lane to do that, then you deserve to be fined. The rest is noise. Overhill is a one way street, so you can turn right into the middle of it. I defy anyone to look at the picture above and claim that this is a difficult turn to make, or that there is any reason to drive in the bus lane.

You could just read what I've said. Southwark can't implement a CPZ for the purpose of generating income - only for managing traffic (there are specific conditions, I've linked you to the regulations, which describe these in detail if you're interested). If after covering the cost of implementing and administering the scheme there is a surplus, then there are also strict rules about how that might be used. This does include road safety and public realm improvements would include things like filtered streets, bike lanes, expanded pedestrian spaces etc. (as I've stated). exdulwicher is right about the introduction of the Dulwich LTN being funded by the UK government's Emergency Active Travel Fund initially. I think your real issue may be your opposition to the types of investments being made in the public realm, road safety and the environment, rather than the principle itself. That's fine, but maybe say that. Again, this isn't a thread about some changes to road layout introduced 4 years ago.

I'm not part of an LTN lobby and this thread is about bus lanes. If you want to follow Rockets advice and drive in bus lanes, then be my guest. I would advise avoiding it though, which really isn't difficult to do.

It's spent on: Road Safety including School Crossing Patrols Contribution to fund Highway maintenance/improvement works Projects in Parks LTN Costs Environment reserve As you have already established

You've asked what Southwark spend money on and then posted a table that accounts for it very well. What exactly are you objecting to? Re. the revenues, comparing the years 2019/20 and 2020/21 (which include lockdowns) with subsequent years isn't really very instructive.

That is not: Your method of ‘research’ as you call it, is actually just classic cherry picking and confirmation bias. Telling people that they can enter a bus lane if turning left is untrue and irresponsible.

It’s marked ‘in confidence’ and has no doubt been published after an FOI from someone trying to find loop holes for their offending. It absolutely does not suggest that you can use the bus lane if turning left or that you will not get a ticket - rather, that they may not bother pursuing an appeal (although I suspect if you’re doing it regularly that changes). I note that it also states that it must be considered in context of other documents of which this is just an appendix to a schedule). To be clear it is guidance to outsourced enforcement companies processing appeals in bulk. It absolutely does not say you're permitted to drive in the bus lane if you’re turning left. Read TFL guidance to drivers, the signs on the bus lanes themselves, and read the Highway Code. This is another example of your searching for snippets of information that you think confirm what you want to believe, whilst ignoring other more relevant guidance, and context. If you insist on driving in bus lanes you will get fined. Suggesting otherwise is extremely misleading and irresponsible.

I believe you got a fine because you drove in a bus lane. It’s a no more complicated than that. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you were passing a vehicle on the left at the time (as that’s usually how people get fined there, and you’ve dodged the question). Rather than just admit a mistake, you’re deflecting and indulging in conspiracy nonsense (colour me shocked).

Your ‘research’ technique really does just involve searching for information you want to believe doesn’t it. If you truly think that you can drive in a bus lane when turning left, keep doing it Rocks. But you will get more tickets.

It’s a confidential document laying out guidance for how a private service provider might batch process outsourced appeal decisions in relation to PCNs. It is an appendix to a specific schedule tagt makes up the whole agreement. It is clear that it must be read in context of several other documents. It does not remotely suggest what you have claimed it does, namely that you can drive in a bus lane if you’re turning left. I am not remotely surprise you’ve been fined if you’ve understood otherwise. You need to read TFls guidance to motorists and the Highway Code rather than Twitter https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/bus-lanes#:~:text=The times of operation and,indicate if this is permitted.

Do you believe the turn is difficult to make without entering the bus lane? Did you get a fine? Were you passing a vehicle on the left at the time?