Earl Aelfheah

Turns out he has been lying to his wife too.

Andrew O?Neil has walked away after 2 weeks. So much for the Captain going down with the sinking ship.

Ah, OK.

teddyboy23 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The old library wlll be split the other half will > be callows locksmiths. Do you mean the library up by the Plough, or by the Station?

So half a decade from the referendum result how's it looking?

All this 'voice of the voiceless' stuff from people like Hartley Brewer, Farage, Ferrari etc is so tedious. They seem to be constantly gobbing off about how they're being silenced. Oh if only it were true.

intexasatthe moment Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dreadful clutter this

An eco chamber for the hard of thinking

@Rockets - agreed.

I think we're a long way from 'complete cycle domination' so I wouldn't worry about that. Motor vehicles on the other hand do dominate the vast majority of public space, so there is quite a bit of scope for some rebalancing.

One thing I think everyone can probably agree on, is that the lack of data / baselining and ongoing monitoring is extremely unhelpful.

heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Without a doubt people living on EDGrove, LL, > Grove Vale and Croxted are suffering more and > longer periods of idling traffic since the 5 LTNs > went in. The constant denial of our lived > experience is tedious and for vulnerable people > dangerous. I know that Rosamund Kissi Debra is > constantly trolled .... even attempts at no > platforming her due to her lived experience of > LTNs causing even more pollution and traffic on > the roads that contributed to her loss. > > Please stop telling us we are either lying, have > some sort of perception issue or that we are so > dim we can?t recognise an increase in idling > traffic. Even the council in its traffic report > pre-Covid stated that traffic WOULD increase and > congestion WOULD increase on our roads as a result > of other rd closures. > > I would have some passing respect for people if > they were honest and just admitted that they know > that there is an increase in congestion, but they > think the benefits for the LTN residents is worth > our sacrifice. I'm not suggesting anyone is lying. I think that we have been through a long period of lockdown during which traffic was significantly down. It is possible that traffic has increased above pre-COVIOD levels now and that LTNS are responsible. I am not convinced that is the case, although I can't say categorically that it's not. What I do think is that any change is not an indisputable fact / as self evident or undeniable as often suggested. It's a shame we don't have better data as I suspect there is naturally going to be a degree of confirmation bias on both sides of the argument. It's possible for people to have different views / perceptions without anyone being a 'liar'.

Rockets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The issue is there were always traffic hot spots, > and yes Calton junction with DV was one of them > but that was more due to the meddling the council > did to try and fix the problem and it just made it > worse than it had ever been (and that was > validated by their own monitoring that showed that > after they made changes to the junction it was > more polluted and more congested than it had been > before). > > What I find so disingenuous about those types of > twitter posts is that no-one wants traffic, no-one > actively wants pollution and congestion - we all > want less pollution and less congestion yet what > those posts fail to acknowledge (and actually most > pro-LTN lobby fail to acknowledge) is that > removing traffic from one place and moving it > somewhere else doesn't solve the problem it makes > it worse. > > It's almost as if Clean Air Dulwich wants people > to believe that since the closures went in > EVERYWHERE is a car-free nirvana. It's not. They > know that, we know that but they steadfastly > refuse to acknowledge it. > > For every 2015 - 2019 video they produce someone > on Croxted Road or East Dulwich Grove or Underhill > or Lordship lane could produce one highlighting > how much worse things are there since the arrival > of the LTNs. > > I want less traffic for all - not a small section > of our community and all those videos do is > suggest groups like Clean Air Dulwich are > concerned about is protecting the car-free nirvana > they negotiated with the council at other people's > expense.... This is the fundamental disagreement I think - whether you believe that the number of car journeys are predetermined / immutable. Personally, I think (in fact I know from my own experience) that there is often an element of choice about whether or not to use the car (obviously not always, but for a great number of short journeys, which many car trips in London are). So by making it is more pleasant / safer to walk or cycle and less pleasant / convenient to drive, you can reduce the number of car journeys overall. There is lot's of evidence for this kind of behaviour change being possible (although I accept that doesn't necessarily mean that any particular measure of this type may be effective). I have witnessed the huge increase in the number of people walking and cycling to my kids gym class for example. It used to be absolute chaos previously, with lot's of cars trying to drop off and this has massively changed. It's anecdote I know, but nevertheless It's my experience. I personally haven't seen a huge increase in congestion on main roads, compared to pre-COVID. I remember EDG being carnage in the mornings previously - I used to walk that way in rush hour. I previously travelled to work on the bus from Lordship Lane also and it was always jammed in the mornings - that was a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, Southwark have not gathered any baseline data prior to introducing LTNS, but the London wide data doesn't suggest the massive increase in congestion some claim has been ushered in by car reduction measures such as LTNs. In Wandsworth, where LTNs were taken out because of concerns about displacement onto main roads, it's made no discernible difference to rush our congestion. It's simply encouraged people to drive, and the excess road capacity was filled almost immediately. Again, there is lots of evidence that increasing road capacity increases the number of journeys (with same caveat as above). Tooting just has busy main roads AND people rat running side streets. I do appreciate that there will be a certain degree of confirmation bias on both sides of this debate when it comes to subjective assessments of traffic levels. It's really regrettable that the approach to this hasn't involved better data gathering. But if you look back at videos taken of the main streets pre-LTNs, or look at air quality data (the little that there is admittedly), it certainly doesn't paint a picture of a new problem that's been created by the introduction of LTNs.

I accept that it really comes down to whether or not you believe there is heavy congestion now that didn't' exist pre LTNS. This assessment is not helped by Southwark's failure to actually baseline, and COVID / lockdowns (the latter has made the former more difficult of course). But I don't buy the picture being painted by some of clear streets and clean air on the main roads that apparently existed up until the introduction LTNS. In the areas where councils have bowed to pressure and removed LTNs, it's made no discernible difference to congestion on main roads.

heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I do like the ....'the roads were busy with > illegal levels of pollution before the LTNs so it > doesn't matter if they are now even worse'... > statements by the 'LTNs at any cost' lobby to > people living on ED Grove, LL, Grove Vale and > Croxted. > > Surely the worst polluted roads and areas with > illegal levels of pollution should be the primary > priority of any council? Especially the ones with > schools, nurseries and health centres? Don't know whether that's directed at me (as it follows on from my post) or not, but the point I was making was that I haven't actually seen evidence that things are worse on main road now than pre-covid. Certainly the videos above and the data on congestion levels I linked to don't suggest so. We need to tackle the problem of pollution on main roads. Making it as easy as possible to drive around the area by car and creating more pollution across more streets doesn't do it. The idea that it's 'fairer' if there are high levels of pollution everywhere seems perverse and doesn't help anyone imo.

I do wonder whether some have forgotten what the roads were like pre-COVID: Although it gets stated as fact that traffic is much worse now, I think it's highly debatable. Some independent (London wide) data here: https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic-index/london-traffic/

Ha! Love it- Thanks for sharing.

I don't understand why they felt the need to close it. As Reg says, the extended pavement is not wider that the car parking spaces that were there before it (in fact it's narrower).

Awful response from the Council. They really ought to be able to answer your question. Perhaps escalate it to one of our local Councillors?

Thanks Mrs B. Sorry you had to go through this.

The issue is much bigger than 'racists'. The real problem is the structural disadvantage that's 'baked in' to most of our systems, process, institutions and culture. Most people aren't racist in the traditional, widely understood sense of the word. But we are all complicit in a system which marginalises, alienates and / or simply puts up hurdles for various groups. Taking the knee feels like an easy bit of gesture politics to me. I'm not necessarily against it, but do wonder whether it achieves much (it might even be counter productive in terms of moving on the 'national debate' about race).

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LOL Drip Drip from Cummings who no-one should let > into a WhatsApp group ever again. > > Hancock must be fuming but he's not showing it. The depressing thing is, it's all 'priced in' with our Vote Leave government. People seem to know and accept that they're dishonest and incompetent, but still prefer them to any of the alternatives. None of it makes any difference

Tried to send something to Spain via Amazon today. That?s suddenly become a massive pain because of new customs restrictions. I know it?s small potatoes in terms of Brexit, but just another thing that was simple made more difficult by this ridiculous exercise in self harm

JDR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Tonight there has been a stabbing and the > perpetrator not caught. I?m not sure about the > other times Oh no. Sorry to hear that. Awful.

I find it incredible that the police would not take this more seriously. I hope they catch this guy quickly.