Cyclemonkey

Thanks - the letters could have been sent out sooner though - I'm sure i wasn't the only one to turn up at Peckham Rye bus stop this morning to fing that it had already been closed!

Catalyst - i don't knwo why the Peckham Palais has shut down but it MIGHT (i say might as i genuinely don't know) be because of licensing issues rather than lack of punters - the Licensing Act 2003 gives police fairly strong powers to shut down licensed venues.

No, i think that point was in reply to those concerned that further gentrification of ED would lead to more chains. It was pointed out that Peckham has loads of chains and cannot really be described as gentrified. Me, i like the variety of both. Happy to shop in the independents of ED and Nunhead. I also go to Khans for rice and spices, superdrug for bath stuff and Asda/sainsburys for other stuff (Asda has great Napolina pasta and tomato offers at the mo.

@hugunot nothing too scandalous really! Let's just say some of the later night places in the earlier days sometimes didn't have the appropriate permissions. The council struggled to keep up with the pace of change and there was a period where Shoreditch had a policing and licencing regime more aimed at a residential area rather than a late night destination. Things are very different now of course and quite rightly so.

@pexprincess - i see what you mean! no Peckham is not like Shoreditch and will never be so i think because of the fact it has a very established and thriving business and residential community that will resist it becommigna 24 hour party place like Shoreditch - i think this is a very good thing - i would not like Peckham to become like Shoreditch at all - afterall it is our homes not a theme park for hipsters desperate for the next trendy place to have a night out - i think i am happy with what we have now - maybe with a bit of cleaning up around Rye lane - it is sad to see so many buildings poorly used when people are desperate for affordable homes/affordable commercial premises. Also i won't go into too much detail ona public forum but i worked with Hackney council in a professional capacity a few years back and there are quite a few reasons why Shoreditch developed like it did and so rapidly - not many of them legal!

Well yes - i think a few of the pubs around Bellenden road have a late license at the weekend - The Gowlett, the Victoria, the Montpelier, Bar Story. The old Nunshead in Nunhead (still SE15) is open late at the weekends. The Bussey Building has been going strong for a couple of years now and is reguklarly open until the small hours at weekends. The Peckham Palais is up and running again with late parties often until the small hours. Any more?

Interesting thoughts. I definitely think SE15 is on the up. I've lived in and around Peckham for 10 years or so and it has been slowly changing all that time but it really has begun to accelerate now and the ELL extension will only make it faster. This could bring good and bad things. I woudl be lying if i wasn't fond of the newer pubs and shops in Bellenden Road, i also enjoy Franks in the Summer and nights at the Bussey Building. Plans to clean up Rye lane are excitign as there is agood architecture underneth the years of grime and neglect. However gentrification comes at a price and last summers riots already show how marginalised and excluded many households in Peckham are. I'm on an ok wage but those gleeful articles recently in the Standard about Peckhams rising rents and houseprices strike fear into my heart - after 4 years with no pay rise and my parter looking for work we will not be able to bear it if our landlord decides to take advantage of Peckhams increasing desirability and increases our rent. also remember Peckham is not like Shoreditch in the 1980s and 1990s, although it has suffered it was not almost completely abondoned by communities in the way that Shoreditch was - i remember walking through Shoreditchin the 1990s and there was nothing - no chain stores, no food shops, no banks, no local authoirty services, derelict buildings and abondoned pubs - Peckham has never got that bad. We also have an exisitingg mixed community, families who live very close to Rye lane, thriveing local businesses so i'm not sure that an all night free for all night life will develop in the same way it did in Shoreditch in the 1990s

It is horrible when that happenes. I remember a few years ago when i lived in Camberwell and was mugged walking home with my friend - the police looked at CCTV and reckoned he followed us off the night bus. However on a lighter note a few months ago was was followed all the way along East Dulwich Road by a shifty looking man who kept looking at me and checking where i was going - i let him overtake me only to see he was waiting at the end of Solway Road (my road) bit spooked i carried on the 24 hour shop at the end of East Dulwich Road as i turned round the man had nipped in to Solway road and was relieving himslef against the wall - turns out he was desperate for a pee and was waiting for me to go past so he could relieve himself without me watching.

Absolutely - i train at Kickboxing and Kung Fu for around 4 - 6 hours a week. We do self defence as a separate discipline and are taught very very strongly that the frist defence is to run away and force should only be used in extreme circumstances. Also that knowlign self defence will not always protect you - complacency is not good. however as jumpinjackflash says it is better to kwo soem basci techniques. As an fairly experienced fighter i would never fight someone in a street situation - partly because my Martial Arts discipline forbids that sort of behaviour and as you say i have enough self knowledge and awereness to recognise the difference between a well organised and controlled bout in a Dojo and a street fight - never fight someone in the street but you can learn and use techniques to avoid conflict and release your self if an attacker grabs you.

Jenny - i can't agree with you there. I will, to be fair, assess the situation idividually. If i am on my own very late at night and have had a bit to drink i will often get a cab. But i refuse to accept that i must curtail my life completely - we need to work towards making streets safer not making the victims curtail their lives. You need to be sensible, as i have outlined above, but advising women to not go out after dark alone is not a place i want to arrive at - what if you are single and live alone? What if you are ona low income and cannot often afford a cab? Here is a positive response to this issue http://www.reclaimthenight.org/ Also please remember whilst this incident is shocking and vile and we should all take extra care at this time women are LESS likely to be attacked at night than young men who are the most at risk group at night. Also women are more likely to be raped and attacked by someone they know (eg on a date, by someone they met in a bar, sadly even by a partner or former partner) than by a random stranger in the street.

How horrible for the person concerned - i hope they catch the person that did it soon. It goes without saying but everyone needs to remember to aware of their surroundings when walking home at night - no headphones on, no checking the phone, make sure you look around you as you walk down the road checking for suspicious people (having said that i did this walking hom along East Dulwich Road last week - getting increasingly concerned about a man in front of me who kept slowing down and looking back at me furtively - i went and stoood by the 24 hour Costcutter and chatted to the workers there and waited for him to pass my road as i was a bit worried about what he was doing - turned out he was looking for a quiet place to urinate! Self defence wise i would recommend women in particular do a self defence course - i recomemnd this one (not one i run but one i have done and heartily recommend it) http://www.kbselfdefence.co.uk/kbsd/about.htm Townleygreen - i understand your advice and a lot of people would do it but as a fairly high level kickboxer and someone who does a lot of self defence, kicking in self defence is not recommended unless you are a very well trained Martial Artist for the following reasosns: 1. It can unbalance you and give your attacker the chance to grab your leg and tip you on to the floor 2. Kicking someone in the groin can just anger them and unless you are sure you are fit enough to run away fast you will get yourself into more trouble - it also requires you to get quite close to the assailant allowing them greater opportunity to grab you. 3. Back to the reasonable force issue - kicking can do a lot of damage unless you have been trained how to control your kicks so it could end up in a worse situation. 4. If you are not very flexible or wearing high heels you can just end up injuring yourself badly The first rule of self defence is to run away, if you can't do that learn so techniques to disarm your assailant - eye gouges, finger bends, neck chops etc.. but as i said learn them properly from a qualifed self defence instructor so you can be sure that they are effective and within the law. finalyl, something i did when there were a few muggings on the road i lived on in Camberwell a few years back. Other women - if you get off the bus or train and are walking the same way as another lone woman why not offer to walk together

gsirett - no offence taken! I realise i have come slightly late to the debate. I only really found out about the CPZ reading notices in shop windows when wanderign around LL at Xmas. Reading the thread i'm not sure a CPZ woudl solve the issue as a wider London or even nationwide initiative is needed to tackle car dependency

gsiret - thanks - a useful summary. So if LL is not included why are the LL traders getting worried? I am astonished people drive to East Dulwich Rail Station - have they not heard of buses? (or indeed their own legs - saves quite a bit on the expensive gym membership) I accept that people in London will always need to drive whether due to their work (anti social hours, carrying tools etc..) becuase of disabilty or large numbers of children etc.. But i think a lot of people in london see driving as the default option when it really isn't that difficult to cut back or even eliminate car usage in many areas of London. We walk, cycle, bus or train everywhere. Use online delivery for all bulky items and use streetcar/streetvan for those times when you just need a car.

first mate that's interesting? i suppose there are complex issues: 1. people who agree who want to park outside their hosue and resent visotrs using "their space" 2. People who don't agree because they don't want to pay to park outside their house and also visitors who want to be able to park BrandNewGuy - interesting question - personally as a non driver parkigng isn't a problem for me but i always assume it is given the amount motorists winge about it! :) - do you think that there is a isn't a problem with parking here? i can't claim to know anything about the residents parking situation, however as a regular cyclist and pedestrian on LL i definitely think there is a growing parking/traffic problem there.

Wow - controversial subject!1 I live in ED but am happy to say as a non car owning tenant i have little persoanl opinion on the subject. However walking along lordship lane yesterday i saw that clearly something has to be done - the parking and traffic situation is ridiculous (as well as the dangerous driving, bad parking, lack of decent road crossing once you get further away from the pedestrian crossing by the EDT. As a non driver the one thing that always amuses me is motorists who compain about problems (lack of parking, congestion etc..) without realising that they are part of the problem - it is always some other drivers fault right? So i suppose i have two questions: 1. for those against the CPZ - uif we admit that parking is an issue in East Dulwich - if this isn't the answer what is? 2. For traders - would a CPZ really affect business that much? As soemone who used to work in planning and town centre policy i understand and occasionally agree with arguements traders make for more parking and against pedestrianisation schemes. However Lordship Lane is not a major shopping area - it is a local high street which probably has a radius of around 2- 3 miles max for people. Furthermore the main offer of shops and services sell stuff that does not need a car to transport. With the amount of trains and busesin he area do many people honestly need to drive there? Comming from the countryside one of my main loves about living in inner london is i no longer need to manitain and run a car - a huge financial burden lifted from me. i would be interested in some honest answers from people who do drive to go shopping in LL as to why they do and how far they have travelled from and whether they would stiop shopping there if they were not able to drive (BTW do not use the "if you had kids" argument - my partner and i have been bringing up a child in inner london for the last 10 years with no car - we are fitter and have a child who does not mind walking!)

Oh i would agree with you there!! there are many many bad road users in London - motorists, bus driver, cyclists and pedestrians! I am just amused that many motorists in London are the cause of the very problems they compalina bout eg congestion, lack of parking etc.. etc..

i'm with James here a CPZ would help you as residents would get parkign permits! I understand people objections to them but as a non driver i am astonished how many people probably drive to LL to shop who don't need to really - it's just becuase it's easier - ever tried cyclign along LL on a Saturday with all the parking and manoevering that goes on along a very busy road - i was nearly taken out last week by soemone tryign to reverse out into the road by the CO OP in a vehicle more suited for the prairies of America than a small inner london suburb. i know some people do need cars for their lifestyles but seriously some people moaning about parking fines, traffic and parking need to ahev a word with themselves and be honest about whether they really need to use their car as much in what is a very crowded inner London suburb with really quite good public transport.

This could be just a rumour but i heard it was going to be a takeaway pizza place - poss called Papa John - is that a chain? I was having a think about what kind of shop i would want seeing as i live on Solway Rd - however i can't think of anything i need that i can't get either in Peckham or Lordship lane

Hi it was me that started the thread about Morleys. Some of the trouble was localised to our block of flats - our block backs onto that row of shops and we have had some issues but hopefully we have resolved those with the shops manager and their landlord The wider issue that i have found out today they do not have a valid late night food license. I am concerned that this show a lack of respect for residents the area that they thought they could open until 1 - 2am without the appropriate license and also residents have not had a proper say in this type of shop opening in their area with the attendant issues such as litter, noise and anti social behaviour. i shall be makign representations to the council once they apply for a license but i would be interested in Southwarks licensing policy and if it is accepstable practice to allow late night food takeaways to open up next to 24 convenience stores in a predominatly residential area.