LondonMix

Okay, so why is Bellenden part of East Dulwich then? I know people who grew up around here and I don't think anyone has ever considered it anything but Peckham even when the two areas socio-economic profiles were more in-line. Why is it all of a sudden part of East Dulwich?

I was reading a book the other day and it mentioned that the pathologising of common conditions really started in the 20th century. People always had difficulties with certain things but these weren't elevated to the status of disease until recently. What does calling something a disease change about it?

SE22 = East Dulwich. Simples... Just because an area is becoming more affluent doesn't mean its no longer part of its original neighborhood. Its like Clapham Junction, which has always been known to be Battersea!

Really? All the streets on both sides of the staion on that side of the road are SE22? Peckham and ED border each other so clearly some parts of Peckham are very close to ED and the station is on the border but I still think its in Dulwich. Bellenden Road (while much nicer than many parts of ED) is definitely in Peckham, and ain't nothing wrong with that! Pepe the Horseman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > East Dulwich station is in Peckham though.

Crystal Palace road for sure with Hansler and Bawdale in 2nd and 3rd place!

Renata, what was discussed regarding the Hospital site? Does that seem like it may house a primary school? What can we as local residents do that support this proposition?

I love shopping locally as well and try to support the vitality of the highstreet whenever I can. One question for the traders: how do you feel about the increasing number of new shops opening in the area? If things are so tight, do you think they are making a bad decision moving here? Just curious as we often speculate about how these things affect you local traders so it would be intersting to hear your thoughts.

I think we would all prefer both the ELLX and the Victoria-Bellingham service- I know I would along with an extension of the Bakerloo line etc! However, on balance, I think the ELLX will be a bigger benefit to the area and more importantly, now that the works have beend done and its part of a larger orbital its unlikely to be withdrawn even if once up and running it turns out we do need more Victoria trains and sucessfully campaign for them. I think campaigning for the Victoria-Bellingham service, if there ends up being a demonstrable need for it, will be much easier to implement and won't result in the closure of the ELL. If we had gotten just the Victoria-Bellingham service, I think it would be much harder to then squeeze the money from the government to do the ELLX given the current strain on finances if you see what I mean. In the end, I think the right decision was made given limitted funding but like I've said before, it's clearly a trade-off.

Agree Cardiffgirl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > First, just to confirm I am not a planning > officer. > > Second, no abuse intended so sorry if I have > offended - It is just frustrating as a local > resident to see potential investment not coming > forward without proper consideration as a result > of fear into development proposals rather than > full consideration to both positive and negative > arguments and a proper assessment based on a > balance of these. > > Finally, I understand as a Cllr for Southwark you > have a right to call a decision in, or seek to try > and ensure this happens, so I guess as my ward > Cllr I am asking you to try and ensure a decision > is made with all available information provided at > this stage, so a sensible decision can be made as > soon as possible rather than resulting in a > position which just frustrates any investment in > to the area.

James, its a stretch to say that money in the local area that was spent at the Garden store will instead be spent at Waitrose. Are our supermarkets on a knife's edge regarding profitability? How would the opening of another Tesco really impact the majority of traders on the high street? New shops, like you say either attract more footfall or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, you are right you don't need to create new infrastructure. The truth is that National Rail who is sponsoring the Thameslink work proposed that the Victoria-Bellingham service be brought in to mitigate the loss of the SLL. However, the Department for Transportation offered TFL the money it would save by not introducing the Victoria-Bellingham option as funding for completing the ELLX. The SLL under all circumstances had to close. However, from the DfT's perspective it would fund either the ELLX or the Victoria-Bellingham service, not both. Transport for London chose the ELLX. Which brings greater benefits to the area? On balance, I would say the ELLX in light of all of the above. However, we have to wait to see if there are capacity issues to be sure. If there are issues, then we will have a strong case for campaigning for the introduction of the supplementary services.

Are you sure? Someone who lives nearby said they received an announcement or something on another thread. peckhamboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LondonMix Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Aren't they developing a new primary school > where > > Dulwich hospital is? How many new primary > schools > > do you think are necessary? > > > No. Probably at least two given overcrowding and > current birth rates in the area.

By marginal, I simply mean that you would have a 20-30 min journey (if you miss your train or during the evening)rather than being cut-off entirely from areas that you want or need to get to. That level of inconvenience in no way is a justification for either not doing the Thameslink works or for building a new Victoria-Bellingham line which is why I called them marginal and why I can't see a reasonable justification for complaining about what's happening.

Yes, there are some people who might be marginally better off with the status quo. The only point I and others are trying to make is that (1) the inconvenience is not that great and (2) the changes are complex and despite some claiming the changes are ?bad / ridiculous / daft / a disaster etc.? they are not for the following reasons: ? Rationale: The closing of the SLL (along with other lines? abilities to call at London Bridge) has to do with redevelopment of London Bridge for Thameslink which is a valuable, worthwhile project despite the logistical challenges it poses to the city over the next several years ? Frequency: The reduction in Victoria service is relatively minimal given that the existing timetable was essentially a 30 min frequency anyway ? Capacity: The introduction of the ELL will benefit certain users currently reliant on the Victoria line depending on their final destination. Users switching to the ELL will reduce demand on the Victoria line service. Given that the SLL was comprised of short trains, the reduction in capacity in the Victoria service is not that great. Even if only a minority of current Victoria users switch to the ELL, there may not be any capacity issues in light of the above. ? Evening and Sunday Service: For those that rely on the Victoria line of an evening and Sunday, many here have discussed at length the various alternatives which again mitigate the need to spend money on the creation of a new line. The loss of the evening service while regrettable does not amount to a disaster given other travel options to and from Victoria in the area. ? Alternatives: given all of the above, the alternative of building / funding the Victoria-Bellingham service to supplement our remaining services to Victoria seems premature and potentially a poor use of limited resources ? Lastly, overall capacity, interconnections etc in the area are increasing post December 9th which should be a net benefit to the community. Everyone should spend time trying to understand the new travel opportunities to make best use of the new connections available. So now we have both made our points. antantant Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The point that I'm trying to make is that there > are people that lose out of the post-December > situation. > > That is all.

Someone mentioned that they received a leaflet concerning the development of a new primary school on the Dulwich Hospital site. Has this been 100% confirmed? Are there any details you can share regarding timing and size of the school? Also what are the plans for the old police station? Has anything definite been agreed on that? Many thanks, LM

Aren't they developing a new primary school where Dulwich hospital is? How many new primary schools do you think are necessary?

Yes, and what evening alternative best suits you will depend on your circumstances. If you have a buggy that you can't or won't fold for whatever reason, then perhaps going via Blackfriars is a better evening alternative for you than the bus. Alternatively, getting a folding buggy for use when travelling on the bus could be an idea depending on your specific circumstances. Dismissing the bus for everyone as an evening subsitute Antantant based on you having a buggy is rediculous. I work late many evenings and outside of the rush hour I take the bus fairly regularly and its pretty reliable.

Exactly. For anyone who uses the train from Peckham, it was already basically a half an hour service. The service still exists during peak times so use it if its what genuinely suits you best but spend some time learning about the new connections. The reduction in Victoria line service is only a relatively small reduction in capacity as the South London Line had relatively small capacity. This is not that big of a deal. Some people will switch to the ELL as it will be faster for them than travelling via Victoria depending on their final destination. Therefore, its premature to say that there will be any adverse capacity issues. Girl82, I was responding to the part of your post where you complain that you have to make a change to get to Victoria on the bus. If you compare apples with apples, that's not true as there are direct buses between Peckham and Victoria. Also, almost everyone on her has said to just use the Victoria line during rush hour as it will still be operating. The bus has been suggested as an alternative during the evenings when the Victoria line won't be running and when the buses are more reliable as there is less traffic. I don't even know what you people are complaining about any more as you can't seem to keep your own arguments straight...

Yeah but if you are comparing apples with oranges. If you have to commute to a station already and are discussing the train vs the bus, then you need compare the journey from the two stations in terms of changes, timing etc for it be a reasonable comparison. Anyway, the bus of a rush hour is a poor substitute for the train in my opinion but is fine for off-peak journeys of an evening.

How is East Dulwich Road out of town development? Also, can you explain why you have no problem with the developer who wants to bring Waitrose in to the redevelopment of the Garden Centre (just up the road) but treat this with such hostility? I love Waitrose and hope they come to ED but your hostility towards other shops seems biased. Comments like this in the M&S thread don't help: Hi alice, The freeholder who has applied for planning permission talks about M&S. Seperately I know the Iceland lease is close to ending. I'd be amazed if Iceland would offer as much rent as M&S would/have. I'm also clear that Waitrose would like the site as is without the extension - and I've spoken at length to them about options. Hope this helps. -------------------- Regards [email protected] 07900 227366 Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward [www.jamesbarber.org.uk] [twitter.com]

Yes Bil, but some people who currently commute via Victoria won't need to use the direct trains into Victoria anymore because the ELL will allow them to get to their destinations using different connections (particularly the Jubilee line to Westminster and Bond Street). The services overall capacity in terms of passanger numbers is not being reduced that significantly as the SLL used short trains and the longer commuter trains will still serve the area, meaning the reduction in trains does not mirror a reduction in commuter capacity. We don't know what the demand on direct line Victoria trains will be inlight of the new connections that are being opend. The SLL closing is necessary for the redevelopment of London Bridge / Thameslink. To compensate for losing connections into Victoria, the authorities did consider creating a new Victoria to Bellingham route but this was scrapped due to funding issues. If after the new transport arranagements in their totality, including the ELLX, are up and running, if there is a demonstrable needfor more service into Victoria then we will all have a very strong case for agitating for funding for the Victoria-Bellingham line solution. We aren't at that stage yet. The totality of the new arrangements might mean that its not justified spending the money on the Victoria Bellingham loop. As tax payers IMHO, I believe we have a responsibility to test the new arrangements and think through the changes.

Thanks James, do you know when this is likely to launch?

Does anyone know who the developer is?

Then use the remaining Victoria line service. There are still direct trains to Victoria from Peckham...

Yep, there was a thread a little while back on this. Apparently, shops are being given funds to smarten up by the council (though I do not think this is compulsory). Its part of regeneration or something.