Chener Books

This book published in New Zealand has a detailed minute by minute account of the 15 September 1916 action. Perhaps someone might persuade Southwark Libraries to acquire a copy. John K

EDmummy With all the human clutter around us it's easy to forget we live in a valley. Can you take a photograph from your office window? As you work at Vauxhall you might like to see Martin Knight's excellent work in reconstructing the River Effra basin. The Effra flows into the Thames near your office. His web-site is here. Mamora Man and Drxyster It would be relatively easy to add streets and street names, but for such a large area a rough calculation shows that the jpg file would be c900mb [sic]. This is too large for internet/email use. I'll have to make some arrangements for anyone interested to have a copy on a DVDR. Meanwhile there is the highly compressed jpg file here here for a smaller area on which you can trace Crimea and other East Dulwich street names. Postscript I find it amusing that the Choumert Road area was once East Dulwich-on-Thames. John K

This is a reconstruction. I have put the map (1.7mb) here. Blocking the "Herne Hill Gap" to restore the Dulwich Hill crest before the headward erosion by the River Effra and removing the consequent slight Effra/Peck watershed that crosses East Dulwich Grove makes the geomorphology of our valley much clearer. It is partly a captured valley. The River Peck tributaries drained what is now Dulwich Village and Herne Hill. The orientation has been changed to minimise the misdirection caused by overfamilarisation with the standard Ordnance Survey projection with north at the top. For context the 2011 course of the River Thames is shown. The map illustrates the original Kent/Surrey boundary quite well. John K

The Ordnance Survey technical standard for "accuracyofposition" data is: "1.0m Urban data capture standards (1:1250 scale). This is the nominal accuracy of a point position at the 99% confidence level." This means a 5 metre line measured by tape on the ground could be between 3 metres and 7 metres when scaled off a map. Before Southwark Council makes assertions about the accuracy of its GIS mapping it needs to specify: 1) the accuracy of the data set input to the GIS software 2) the paramaters used in manipulating the data set within the GIS software 3) the accuracy of the output presentation from the GIS software. John K

On the way to preparing a pre-human landscape map of East Dulwich I saved a view looking at the mouth of our East Dulwich valley. Someone might find it interesting. Vertical scaling x16. John K

The northern boundary of East Dulwich Parish runs along the centre of Choumert Road. John K

Matham Grove was part of the "Bailey Estate". The freehold of the land was owned by E.Bailey of Lordship Lane. The estate comprised of: The South side of East Dulwich Grove between Tell Grove and Lordship Lane The East leg of Tell Grove Matham Grove Ashbourne Grove Both sides of Melbourne Grove between Ashbourne Grove and Chesterfield Grove Chestefield Grove Bassano Street Blackwater Street The North side of Melbourne Grove between Blackwater Street and Lordship Lane The West side of Lordship Lane between East Dulwich Grove and Melbourne Grove Bailey's houses were built between 1873 and 1885 and were built to rent out to the respectable working class. By 1885 a seven room house was rented out at ?30 per year. John K

The numeric labels on the contour lines are the height in metres above sea level of each contour line. The contour lines are at two metre jeight intervals and are derived (by GIS software) by compositing a LIDAR height data set and the Ordnance Survey contour line data set. The height colour shading is also derived by GIS software. If nothing else this new map shows that St John the Evangelist Parish, East Dulwich, and St Mary Magdalen Parish, Nunhead, share the same shallow U-shaped valley. John K

On the way to producing a pre-human settlement landscape map of East Dulwich an interim map showing contours overlaid on the current road and rail network has been produced. It might prove useful in discussions on the EDF about our geography and history, and even illuminate the darkness of discussions about where East Dulwich is. The map is here for a few days. It's been reduced in size by over 90% and then compressed (to 1.2mb) to make it suitable for the internet. John K

A little problem.... There were two manors: Dulwich and (Camberwell) Friern. There is little evidence to support the tradition that Lordship Lane was the boundary between the two manors. John K

In the eighteenth century it was known as Primrose Hill. In the nineteenth century it became known as Ladlands. It was still called Ladlands (by my family and friends) when I was a child. John K

Is the Lordship Lane Estate part of East Dulwich? The Lordship Lane Estate area is of interest because of the uncertain South Western border of Friern Manor with Dulwich Manor and whether Friern people had any common rights taken away by private enclosure acts of Parliament. The will have also been other boundary "adjustments" after the introduction of the Copyhold Act. Note that Dulwich Manor and what we now know as the Dulwich Estate are not identical or co-terminous entities. The enclosure of of Dulwich Common (singular) is sometimes stated to have been in 1809. 1809 was the date the Dulwich Estate drew up an enclosure map (which may have been 'improved'). It is commonly reported that the Act permitted the enclosure of 130 acres of Dulwich Common. There were actually two Dulwich enclosure Acts. The first Private Act of Parliament was passed in 1805. Unfortunately it was an unprinted Act. It is not clear that anyone has seen or read a copy of the Act in over 200 years. The 1808 Private Act of Parliament was "The Dulwich Building Act 1808". History books say this was to enable the Dulwich Estate to grant leases longer than 21 years. The New provision was to issue 64 leases with a "fine" to enble the leases to be extended a further 21 years, bringing the maximum lease to 85 years. These must have changed again later to permit 99 year leases. The history books are silent on other provisions of the Act. However, Macmillan's Magazine, Volume 17, 1868, states in respect of the 1808 Act that, "Two hundred acres of coppice or woodland besides arable and pasture were to be reserved [...]". This reads like a second enclosure. There is also a stray unsupported reference that Cox's Walk was only enclosed as late as 1929 [sic]. John K

A little problem.... The production process for powdered eggs was not invented until the early 1930s. John K

Dulwich Public Baths was used to house Belgian refugees during the First World War. Does anyone know the location of any documents relating to this? Did any of the Belgians settle in East Dulwich and are any of there descendents still living here? John K

The original course of the Pec before it was culverted can still be seen at the edge of Peckham Rye Park immediately opposite Piermont Green. The "stream" running through Peckham Rye Park is an artificial late Victorian landscaping feature dating from c1890. More details are here. John K

BRIXTON HUNDRED

Here is an extract of Roque's 1768 map of Surrey With all the caveats that apply to interpreting Rocque's maps. (1) The northern boundary of East Dulwich Parish follows the field boundary where Choumert Road now runs. (2) Note the location of Peckham Rye. This might be the root of the LCC's 1951 legal problem of specifying the location of Peckham Rye. This may also explain the Court Plea (unspecified date in the range 1492 to 1547) held in the National Archives (Item reference REQ 2/8/85) about "lands and tenements in East Dulwich [in Camberwell] called Peckham Rye". (3) Greendale is more clearly delineated than on later maps. This may be the original western boundary of Friern Manor. Greendale also roughly follows the watershed between the Effra and Pec basins. (4) The Pec does not run through Peckham. (5) Dulwich Hill is an odd geological feature. It seems to have the same geological structure as Glastonbury Tor. Does anyone have any more information? John K

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This is a poor quality scan of part of Senex's 1729 map of Surrey. Is this the earliest map that has detail of Friern (now "East Dulwich")? All the caveats about interpreting old maps apply. For example Dog Kennel and Grove Lanes are omitted but that was the way Friern folk walked to church on Sundays. Note that Lordship Lane turns west into what is now Sydenham Hill (road) and doesn't continue south to what is now Forest Hill. John K

I came across this by accident. Official report here John K

You guys need a little historical perspective for this thread. John K

I don't mind if it is Ascension or Rogation as long as the squire, the vicar, the lawyer, and the doctor provide the free feast for the beaters. If you're intending to reinstate this tradition you may wish to compile a list of 2010 equivalents who have inherited an historical obligation to dig deep into their pockets and pay for a free feast for the beaters. John K

Ted Max: I didn't know there was society in Peckham. I will try to be respectful as befits my lowly station in life. silverfox: So far I have not found any evidence to show that Friern Manor has ceased to exist. It is possible that Camberwell Vestry "bought out" the manorial rights early on in the 19th century. Something to investigate further. The rest of your question needs a long convoluted answer, but you are on the right lines. I'm afraid you'll have to take a rain check. John K

I never expected such an erudite question. Dewhirst's map of the Parish of Camberwell (c1842) clearly shows the original overground course of the River Peck. John K

Quality naughtiness might have been well rewarded. However, I was expecting questions such as: How confident are you about the course of the River Peck before it was culverted? John K