Debi

I for one appreciate you coming here to clarify further. My point is this: I have always had trouble understanding why some people feel unable to support one school without putting down another. If you're new to the area, you won't know that there has been a long history relating to public perceptions about Kingsdale and these not being matched by the reality. I hope you can understand why I thought this was more of the same, possibly by someone who had posted with another name at other times. I accept that you posted here in good faith, unaware of the history and background and therefore not knowing the likely consequences. The thing is that I only ever post here about Kingsdale. As an active parent of 2 children at the school, it is the only school I feel qualified to comment on. By definition, anything I say about another school can only be hearsay. But look! It's clear that there is a need for more than one or two good secondary schools in the area. And it seems we DO have more than that. So let's all celebrate that and stop building up one school at the expense of another. As I've said before - we're not in competition with each other. BTW - as you have given the name of the officer concerned, I'm sure the school with now follow up this lack of professionalism on his part.

Skittler - no need for trepidation as far as I'm concerned. I have never personally attacked or made accusations against any individual posting on this forum, nor would I. I have also never said anything negative about other schools, but have only defended Kingsdale against attacks by others. Given that there has clearly been misinformation circulating here, and that can have very unfortunate consequences, I hope you can understand that there could be suspicions about the source of the rumours. Unfortunately, something has been said here on the forum and many people seem to have accepted it as fact. It's now clear (or should be) that there is no truth in the accusation that there have been recent arrests of Kingsdale pupils for mugging Harris boys. I do think it's a real shame that these allegations have been accepted and repeated by some people and it does remind us all that we need to be very careful about what we post here. Personally, I think that people posting about contentious issues under pseudonyms can lead to them believing they can say anything without thinking about the consequences. But that's another issue - I only mention it because it provides the background to my suspicions about the original poster. I certainly agree that there needs to be further investigation about the original source of this misinformation. I'm sure that both Kingsdale and the police will be taking the matter further.

I am referring to the quote you gave from that other thread because there's an alternative - that person made the allegations and could be the one who has something (I've no idea what) to gain from making unfounded accusations. As far as I can see, no one has suggested that Harris themselves backed the allegations and, as I said, I doubt if the community police officer would have made these remarks. The only person here who cannot be identified and is unaccountable is the person you quoted.

I have said I don't know howe many times that I have 2 children at the school and that I am secretary of the parents' forum. Ask many Kingsdale parents and they will tell you it's not unsual to receive phone calls from staff at weekends and late in the evenings. I've received emails sent in the early hours of the morning! Please don't look for hidden agendas; mine is absolutely transparent. Let's go back to the specific allegations made about recent reports of muggings by older Kingsdale pupils against Harris boys. IF the community police officer reeally did say what is reported in this forum, it is highly unprofessional and I expect there will be consequences. I have had dealings in the past with these officers and know that they take great pains to be seen as impartial, which is exactly as it should be. Now let's look at the person who made these accusations on the forum. They registered here on 10th March and have posted 3 times, twice to make these allegations about Kingsdale pupils. In other words, they have no visible history and it's impossible for anyone to know what their motivation might be. I, however, have been a member of EDF for many years and have frequently posted, not always about Kingsdale. I use my real name, as I have said elsewhere, and can be easily identified. Please don't get distracted with trying to work out my angle or catch me out. It's a waste of time and energy and distracts from the real point ie that someone has made specific unfair and unfounded maliciious accusations, to which I have responded.

So, by definition, you are accusing the member of the SMT at Kingsdale and the School's Liaison Inspector of lying re these accusations of recent incidents? Is that what you are saying? I can't speak for the motivations of the original poster or, if it is true, the police officer quoted. I can only present facts. I repeat again: the official line from both the police and the school is that there have been absolutely no reports of these alleged incidents. This is reliable info from named sources, both in the school and with the police. Anything else reported here is nothing more than unfounded rumour and accusation.

Queenie - of course I don't deny there might be less than perfect behaviour from Kingsdale pupils, any more than there might be from children at any other school. I was responding to specific accusations made here in this thread about recent incidents involving older Kingsdale boys mugging Harris boys. 'The incident happened - deal with it.' But this is where you're wrong, I'm afraid. There have been no reports of any such incidents according to the Senior Management Team at Kingsdale AND the School's Liaison Inspector. I am not accusing any specific person of lying, either the commmunity support officer who supposedly made this allegation or the person reporting it here. I am, however, dealing with facts and that is that, according to the post, Kinsgdale had been co-operating with police and had provided names and addresses of the alleged culprits. This quite simply has not happened. The school have gone to the trouble of checking with the Inspector who has confirmed there have been no such incidents or complaints. I do know that Kingsdale pupils are no better or worse than otherss of their age. However, I'm not going to stand by and see unfounded accusations, with absolutely no basis in fact, being thrown around without responding. I repeat: the official line from both the police and the school is that there have been absolutely no reports of these alleged incidents ie they did not happen. Deal with it.

I've just spoken to a member of the senior management team at Kingsdale. He has told me that there is no truth in this allegation whatsoever. They have not given any info to the police because they have not been asked for it. They have asked the Schools' Liaison Officer and he has confirmed that there have been no reports of crimes committed by Kingsdale pupils against Harris pupils or indeed any one else. I don't know how and why, but it is clear that this is a complete fabrication. As for there being problems specific to the older cohort, my son is in Year 11 and he was saddened that people would have these kinds of perceptions about his year group. I think this illustrates the dangers of the rumour mill, particularly at times when so many parents are already anxious.

If this is true and not just hearsay and Kingsdale are aware of it, I'm sure they will take appropriate action. They have a zero tolerance of such behaviour.

I've just heard that Kingsdale's network is down and there may be a problem with emails getting through. It might be best to phone.

Spend more on something else? Like small class sizes, subsidised transport system, Saturday school, highly subsidised trips of a lifetime? Because they do all that too. I'm not sure what is being criticised here.

I can assure you that we regularly hear of groups coming from all across the world to visit Kingsdale (a delegation from Korea being a recent example) and this is a significant source of income for the school. This article goes some way to explain why. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/7658278/The-future-of-schools.html

Intexas - thanks for that. If the situation happens as you describe, the appeals process comes into play at which point numbers can be made up from the waiting list. Click on the admissions tab on the school site then 'admissions appeals' on lhs. You will see a cutoff date of 4th April, with the Appeals Info open evening being held on 5th April. They say they will also be providing more info on the website after that date.

I wouldn't say that I have influence at the school, any more than any other parent. Nevertheless, I will certainly feed back the comments made about the website. The site's always being updated, so it's worth checking regularly. As for whether the scholarships should be dropped now, I'm sure the hundreds of families who applied for them would strenuously disagree. The extra input my son gets from his scholarships are absolutely invaluable and are offering him opportunities that we would never be able to offer him ourselves.

*sigh* OK - here is how I see it. But please realise that I don't claim to represent the school - or anyone else for that matter. If the intake is 210 and 15% will be children who have been offered scholarships, that equates to 30 children. But if the school only awarded 30 scholarships at that stage in the process, the problems should be obvious. As you will see from the explanation of the complex process (by Renata Hamvas earlier in this thread) no school has access to specific info re applicants, including where their school has been placed on that child's list. So, if they awarded only 30 scholarships, there's no guarantee that those 30 people would accept a place at the school, even if it was offered. They might have put other schools higher up their list and be offered places at them. Or they might move out of the area, or decide to go private. So logic dictates that the school has to award more than the minimum of 30 ie 15%. I have been present at many open mornings and evenings and know that this is made clear. There's a lot of info to take on board at these events and maybe people miss the crucial bits, or maybe they have preconceptions and everything they hear is filtered according to those preconceptions. I also know from personal experience that the process is made abundantly clear ie that, if a scholarship is awarded, it does not guarantee a place at the school. It can't - because that stage of the process is handled by the LA and not by the school. When my younger son was awarded scholarships in both music and sport we were told very clearly, both verbally and in writing, that it didn't guarantee him a place - even though he also had a sibling at the school. Does this help? I sincerely hope so, though I suspect we'll go through the same discussions next year.

Prickle - 'Debi, could you put a link to the explanation about the scholarships here. Thanks' Or you could search the forum yourself. Make sure you select all dates, not just the last month.

Queenie - you said 'And Debi- you obviously work at Kingsdale. Please be honest and say that you might be biased.;' No, I don't work at the school. In fact, I have never been anything other than honest. I have said clearly here and on other threads on the forum that I have 2 children at the school, one in Year 11 and one in Year 8. Unlike many other people here, I post under my real name and am happy to be identiified. I have been active as a Kinsgdale parent for 4.5 years. I am the secretary of the parents' forum and of the parents' literacy support group. I am also on a rota of parent volunteers who come in on Saturdays to support pupils who need extra help with reading and writing. I am most certainly biased. I love the school and will always be grateful that we ignored all those people years ago who told us we were either ignorant or evil to send our older son there, Fast forward a few years and now people (some of them the same ones who had criticsed us before) have recognised what a great school it is and are desperate for their children to get in. I find it bewildering that, in spite of this, many of those same people seem to take every opportunity to find fault and criticise. Is the school perfect? No, of course not, and in fact they pride themselves on being open to constructive criticism and willing to change, which is why they consult with parents to the extent that they do. Ask anyone who has children at the school and who attends the monthly forum. Personally, I'd far rather be on the inside, working with the staff and management team to build on the radical improvements they are continuing to make, than outside, wagging fingers of condemnation. You describe me as biased. The word I would use is 'loyal'. BTW - the answer to the questions about how the scholarships work and why more are awarded than would constitute 15% of the places allocated are on other threads. I know because I've said it so many times.

Shoddy reporting - a quick lift from the website minus any context. The real policy is far more complex, as you say, which is why I posted the link and suggest people check the school's website for the full picture. It's sad that SLP should give such a misleading impression in this article. People are feeling bad enough without being given extra fuel from their local paper with reporting that is anyway far from balanced and accurate. If Kingsdale intended to make changes to their policy, parents would be fully consulted. They certainly wouldn't find out this info from SLP.

Do you know about the march to the Millennium Bridge? Not East Dulwich but ... http://www.womenforwomen.org/bridge/attend-bridge-event.php

Let me throw a bit more light on distance not being part of Kingsdale's criteria. When this was brought in it was because of an exisitng situation that was neither representative nor fair - either for the school or for any of the families. Children from further away who had put the school top of the list were not being offered a place, whereas children who lived closer but had not put it top of their list were getting offers. This didn't suit anyone and you can't blame the school for a) wanting to ensure a fairer deal for familites AND b) preferring to have children at the school who were really committed to being there. Hence the decision to remove distance from the school from the criteria. As I said, not a perfect solution but hard to see a betteer one. Intexas - you said 'If they want to change them they can do ,after consultation .Which ,in my experience ,if you're a parent ,means no more than informing you about what they intend to do .' Kingsdale's reputationm for meaningful and transparent consultation is extremely good and deservedly so. Sillywoman - Charter is also an excellent school. I would never dream of putting it down and don't see why any Charter parents should feel the need to score points over Kingsdale. As is obvious from this thread and many others, there is a severe shortage of good co-ed secondary non-faith schools. The presence of both Kingsdale and Charter should be celebrated. I can't see any point in those loyal to either denigrating the other. It's not a competition.

Minder - actually, you're wrong. Whatever people may think about this, the truth is that many people are making the choice for their children to go to Kingsdale as opposed to going private, which they could afford. That's what hsppens when a school is as good as Kingsdale is, with constantly improving results, amazing resources and a wonderful and highly committed management team and staff. Dorothy - I feel really sorry for those families who live in the estate behind the school and who didn't get in - as I do for anyone in that position. But the fact is that they - and you - have the same chance as anyone else. Why do you assume your children won't get in? Edited to add re transport that Kingsdale run their own bus service with pick ups and drop offs at various primary schools.

For some reason the links here default to the Kingsdale home page. Please click on the admissions tab or the quick link at the top of the home page to see full details of the admissions criteria, appeals process etc. All the points raised here in the forum are answered in full there.

I think you must be misunderstanding something here. Any school that is a foundation school or academy etc is able to set its own admissions policy. Kingsdale is not selective in the way you imply. Most of the admissions criteria are the same or very similar as other schools with the exception of not using distance from the school as a factor. The full admissions policy is here: http://www.kingsdale.southwark.sch.uk/PDF/Admissions-Policy-2010.pdf As you can see, they are committed to ensuring the intake represents the full range of ability and reflects the diversity of the community it serves.

See this link for info re Kingsdale's waiting list and appeals. http://www.kingsdale.southwark.sch.uk/admissions_appeal.html They say: Please be advised that the school will be holding an Appeals Information Evening for entry into Year 7 for September 2011 on Tuesday 5th April 2011 at 7pm. The purpose of this evening is to demystify the appeals process, whilst providing helpful information and useful advice to assist parents who may be considering lodging an Appeal under the Schools Standards & Framework Act 1998.

I'm sorry for those of you who are understandably stressed and unhappy and hope you get a school you are happy with at the end of the process. Re Kingsdale not using distance as a criteria - if you look at the school's immediate surroundings, you will see milllion pound+ houses where any children would be guaranteed a place. Would that be better? Choosing by distance can also be seen as encouraging those who have the means to move into a particular area, squeezing out those for whom moving is not an option. It also encourages fraud whereby people use false addresses etc in order to fulfil this criteria. While I don't think anyone would describe the present situation as perfect, with a lottery at least that way everyone is on a level playing field and has an equal chance.

I understand this also happened to several other children in the park at about the same time - these 2 males and 4 others operating at the same time in a different group. The police were called and I've just been told (by one of the victims) that one of them was caught shortly afterwards in Dulwich Village.