mako

The BBC today reported on its news feed that The dangerous vapour from a cyclist could be up to 20m and runner I think 10m. This is significantly different to walking or standing still which is why particular attention is being made about their conduct, where also considering they are moving at greater speeds it is harder to maintain even 2m compared to keeping that distance from someone walking. Alison your comment 'However, it is highly unlikely, according to all of the medical experts, that a jogger (or child, or cyclist) running by one in an open space poses a danger.' is factually incorrect (it is very easy to find scientists/virologist suggesting contray to what you write).and I request you retract that comment as others may take it as fact. The main point still no-one has answered is why does anybody need to be jogging anywhere near anyone else esp on the pavements where even 2m distance cannot be maintained. The exercise argument is also pathetic as the vast majority could just as effectively exercise indoors or in their own gardens.

Your intentions sound positive Alison, however the kindness you ask for means taking every possible precaution to stop the spread of virus, rather than herd immunity by exposure, which we dont know if it works, how long immunity would last and obviously of no use to those who are dead. As for the 'so what' to some people not being polite in other ways, there is a difference in this 'lack of politeness' can literally kill someone,-not really the same as someone who interrupts or doesn't say thank you. There are plenty of opportunities to do vigorous exercise without jogging the streets of lordship lane. As for 'fretting' about the actions of others, they can have a direct impact on whether we/friends/ family stay alive or not. As for your presumption that a 'jogger' is healthy, it is widely accepted that many carriers of the virus can show no symptoms, so they may personally be healthy, but pass on the virus to someone who isnt.

There still seems to be 'its only a minority' flouting the rules as if that means it isnt a major issue. Surely everyone has seen the impact one person can have on total numbers infected. It also isnt rare. The numbers of joggers on lordship lane continues to be ridiculously high and due to the pavements size even moving into the road doesnt usually maintain 2m (which most research now suggests is not nearly far enough for someone outdoors who isnt stationary).

You are right Healy that there are selfish types walking, running, cycling ambling etc. They ruin it for everyone. The considerate walker or runner can go about their business and maintain their distance. the problem with the inconsiderate jogger is they make it harder for the considerate walkers to maintain their distance. The inconsiderate amblers are easier however to avoid so whilst still a problem, they are 'less bad'.

malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good heavens, if people are like this after two > weeks what on earth will it be like after two > months? > > To remind you of the advice: > https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronav > irus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/corona > virus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do You dont seem to understand the difference between advice and what is allowed. You are > > You should only leave the house for very limited > purposes: > > shopping for basic necessities, for example > food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as > possible > one form of exercise a day, for example a run, > walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your > household > any medical need, including to donate blood, > avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to > provide care or to help a vulnerable person > travelling for work purposes, but only where > you cannot work from home You dont seem to understand the difference between advice and what is permitted. 'Thank you to everyone who is saving lives by staying at home this weekend.'(Johnson.) I repeat the advice here is stay at home and save lives. You are allowed out for essential exercise. You arent advised that you should go out and Hancock has basically said today that a ban is coming on all outdoor exercise because people either havent understood the message or are ignoring it. They are to blame for not being clear enough in message but some who are capable of understanding are choosing not to.

FlatStanley Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Stop blaming joggers..! There are ignorant and > lazy people everywhere you go. These people may > sometimes choose to walk, sometimes cycle, maybe > even run, or worse still...roller blade. It?s > simple - everyone should make an effort to > distance themselves from one another. And that > includes moving yourself out of the way of > oncoming traffic - it takes two to tango. Don?t > just expect cyclists or runners or roller bladers > to move - pedestrians must also move. And if you > don?t, well don?t whinge when you don?t get the > whole pavement to yourself! But on a serious note, > I noticed today that people overall were being > more conscientious, which is really positive. > > And whoever was moaning about parks being for > families: bore off. The parks are for everyone An issue with joggers/runners/cyclists is that it is harder to maintain the 2m when people are coming at you at a greater speed/it may not be possible to move into the road etc. People need to walk to get to shops for essentials and unless travelling to work do not need to cycle or jog on the pavements. There has been general agreement that those wishing to exercise should do so in the parks, and much of the criticism has been about joggers on pavements.

seenbeen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Maybe instead of doing a lengthy Low Intensity > exercise jogging around for an hour people could > do a High intensity sprint and then go home within > 20 minutes? Most people in ED could simply do a high intensity workout at home.

first mate Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ebeneezergoode Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Joggers (I'm one) need to take it easy. Stick > to > > early morning or evening and run in the road. > > Remember we are breathing out hard - pushing > > droplets far beyond 2 metres. Last week I was > > visually reminded of this on a frosty morning > in > > Dulwich park - and I've not run in the park > > since. > > As for the spitters - I've seen a few... that's > a > > war crime! > > Thank you! You illustrate the problem perfectly. > The jury is currently out on distance required to > be safe when breath is forcefully exhaled > (coughing, sneezing, panting). With a light breeze > to carry droplets further, who knows. A cough can travel 6m a sneeze 8m and breath travels further in warm conditions. Just stay indoors when you can .

malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mako Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I see plenty of Families of 4+ people going out > > for a jolly bike ride. Looking at the expensive > > bikes I'm sure most have gardens. Yes its > > inconvenient but this is life and death. Stay > in > > your own house or garden unless you have to go > > out. The kids being bored DOES NOT count. The > one > > guideline about out once for exercise may be > > appropriate in most areas but it means in more > > densely populated places like ours people are > too > > close too often and it makes it unavoidable for > > those forced out. I know many older people > scared > > to go out as they cant avoid numerous walkers > > joggers and cyclists encroaching. what about > their > > mental and physical health? > > I'm happy to take my advice from government, which > is go out and exercise once a day. The roads are > lovely and quiet and I hardly get close to anyone > (ideally that would be zero). Quiet roads are a > sliver lining. But tell me where you live and > I'll avoid the area. There is a thread on the > lounge 'has anyone heard of coronavirus' or words > to that effect where you can have a moan in > similar company. Today's journey was to > Beckenham, and then up Annerley Hill. Not that > pretty but a good work out. You will be pleased > to hear that I am avoiding Richmond Park, which is > too busy at the best of times. > > LJ56 - yes the wonkers in cars speeding is even > more noticeable, many being businesses quite a lot > liveried. There isn't even an argument about > congestion delaying journeys any more. I love the > BBC using sitcoms to encourage the right > behaviours, I'll think about an appropriate sketch > to encourage more considerate behaviour by those > who have to drive. the governments advise is quite clearly 'Stay at home'. That is the advise. They advise you to stay at home. You are 'allowed' to leave the house to do one form of exercise. They dont recommend that you leave the house once a day to exercise. They advise you to 'stay at home'. So if you are happy to take the governments advice, then stay at home.

Whilst generally in agreement with you Ed-Nag there are plenty of families that really could be using their own gardens for some fresh air (obviously not all but more than are at the moment). People living in places without their own outside space should have priority in the park if anyone, be that families-or single people. In fact single people may not get to see other people otherwise, whereas families dont have that.

We are in an area thats about the 10th most affected in the uk and people refusing to even give up jogging on our busiest pavements in order to literally save lives. Maybe when they realise that lockdown will go on for much longer as a result they may take notice. Same as those pub goers when they knew what was coming but were still 'allowed'to pub so went anyway.

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > hellosailor Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I don?t think you?ve read the rest of the > thread. > > No one is suggesting that people doing what > you?re > > doing should be apologetic. > > I don't agree, someone is saying "there's no > excuse if you have a garden". Which I find absurd. > It's all about avoiding crowded areas and times of > day, and giving everyone plenty of space. Presumably you agree that fewer interactions less than 2m means less infections and less deaths and less terrified pedestrians, and more people less scared to do their shop for fear of these interactions. Presumably you agree that if you exercise in your garden then interactions are reduced therefore lives saved. Doesnt seem that absurd to me. If you have to jog, do in parks. I see literally no need to do it on narrow pavements in busy areas such as lordship lane beyond selfishness and self entitlement.

So why Alice are you going out and facing the idiots and putting yourself and others at risk. Redjam I do feel strongly about this. I have watched from my window literally thousands of instances of people unecessarily encroaching the 2meters and people will unecessarily die as a result. My view is that its been less than 2 weeks and people really could have exercised indoors or in their gardens if they have one. If you feel you must jog then go to a park not the busy pavements. i understand that not all joggers are to blame and not all areas are so busy, but Lordship lane for example is too busy to run along the pavements and be socially responsible.

'Stay at home protect lives'.Matt Hancock today. Or in other words 'Go out for an unnecessary jog and kill people'

Due to the selfishness and or stupidity of large chunks of society you are right that the government needs to give clearer advice that needs to be much more restrictive than iot currently is if it wants as few infections as possible.

It is also terrifying for vulnerable groups to have people running at them knowing the risks. This isnt the same as someone doing their shopping

DuncanW Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No Mako, the virus won't miraculously avoid me > when I am running, anymore than it will when I am > out walking or buying groceries... a bit lost as > to what point you are trying to make there. > > > KK - that's fair, but have people said that > exercise should be limited to jogging, I haven't > seen that on this thread - have I missed it? The more you reduce interactions the better for everyone. You do not need to be pounding the pavements. All interactions you make jogging are entirely avoidable. People will die due to unnecessary encounters with joggers. Yes more will die from shopping but that is essential and not just 'because I want to'

Oh of course the government instructions have said its ok so the virus will avoid you if are on permitted exercise. In less populated areas going for a run could be done without many interactions. The pavements of Lordship Lane do not fall into that category. If you have to run why not go to the parks where you can be avoided. As for your 'small minority', you cannot fit on most pavements and keep 2m apart. your reaction times to do so are less with joggers especially if it requires one of you to go in the road which it does. In 10 minutes out my window there were 45 instances of people passing within 2m of people they werent with. it is a significant number that could be avoided.

If you have a garden you have plenty of room to do some exercise and get fresh air. If you just want to jog you can obviously do that on the spot indoors, but fresh air of benefit.

fayebarrett Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > KidKruger Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Talking to my neighbours on CP Road, keeping > our > > distance on opposite sides of pavement (I'm > stood > > at kerb, neighbour behind front gate). > > A couple, running, just jog through between us. > > Gobsmacked wouldn't even start to explain my > > surprise ! > > WTF > > If I see these guys tomorrow there'll be > another > > thread. > > @kidkruger Can I ask where you thought they should > go, given that you were taking up the whole > pavement? I?ve been running several times a week, > as I always have done. I try my absolute best to > keep 2+ metre distance by going onto grass, into > road, etc, but when you?re next to a busy road > this is quite difficult. I have found that walkers > seem to feel they have more claim to the pavement > than joggers. We ALL need to keep a distance - > it?s not up to one group only. As a previous > poster mentioned, it would be helpful if > walkers/those on the pavement also made an effort > to move also! There is no reason for you to be running on the pavements where other people are. People need to walk on the pavements to get to shops. if you have to run go to the parks we have plenty.

I see plenty of Families of 4+ people going out for a jolly bike ride. Looking at the expensive bikes I'm sure most have gardens. Yes its inconvenient but this is life and death. Stay in your own house or garden unless you have to go out. The kids being bored DOES NOT count. The one guideline about out once for exercise may be appropriate in most areas but it means in more densely populated places like ours people are too close too often and it makes it unavoidable for those forced out. I know many older people scared to go out as they cant avoid numerous walkers joggers and cyclists encroaching. what about their mental and physical health?

To be honest I think all joggers are letting everyone down. Stay at home, and literally no excuse if you have your own garden.

Dont see why being within two meters cycling past someone is any different to walking other than they have less time to get out the way. Shouldnt people be staying indoors wherever possible at the moment?

Surely people can cut out jogging or cycling for a while so people dont die?

Basically anyone who has a garden should only be allowed out to buy essentials or work. Cycling should only be to work or buy essentials. WTf is wrong with everybody? Unnecessary 'need' to ride the streets in lycra will literally kill people. Otherwise clear pavements so people who have to use them can do with as few interactions as possible.