Tony.London Suburbs

Got A Tumbling Sensation-Clarence "Frogman" Henry.

Love Comes Tumbling-U2B)

Love Is A Rose-Neil Young

Ramblin' Rose-Nat King Cole

Indeed! Who can forget his portayal of Harold Hill in "The Music Man"?(tu) Sadly missed i.m.o.

Down The Distpipe-Status Qup. p.s. Has anyone said "Tumbling Dice"(?)B) Down The Distpipe-Status Qup??...Either I've had a wee dram or I'm typing in the dark! Sadly,its the latter:))

How refreshing and re-assurring to realise some things never change in this wonderful world which we are so fortunate to inhabit! When the poo-poo hits the fan its the dear old Temps who are the natural scapegoat:-$ Restores omes faith in the system somewhat.>:D<

Tumbling Dice-Rolling Stones

Brendan Wrote: Blah blah blah? immigration? blah blah? council house? blah blah blah? blah blah? New Labour? blah blah? EU? blah blah? hard workers? blah blah blah blah blah? I?m not a racist? blah blah, Benefits?. blah blah Polish? blah blah blah blah blah > terrorists? blah blah? bloody Daily Mail? blah blah blah blah blah? disgraceful? blah blah blah? health and safety is discriminating against me? blah blah blah blah? yadda yadda? I actually quite like curry? blah blah blah... but everyone?s > really the same? blah blah blah blah blah blah? but we must understand our differences? blah blah? queen and country? blah blah welfare state? blah blah blah blah blah? LOL..Now do it properly Brendan if you are going to M8!...where's "some of my best friends" for starters? At least the above doesn't apply to me! I HATE curry with a vengeance..the smell..the taste every little thing about it:))

Keef Wrote: they are immediutely classified as "Homeless" and > placed at the top of the waiting list with all > other Homeless Families whether they were > previously resident here or not. That's just not true, they will be placed on the waiting list with the same priority as all the other families in that situation, they don't jump to number 1 spot and take over everyone else! Keef: In that piece above that you quoted I was saying they go to the top as they are homeless "with all" other homeless families-some born here,some been here for a while and some newly arrived. All people newly arrived from abroad who present themselves to the local council will be classified as "Homeless" and,thus,will go to the top of the Housing List along with existing homeless people already there so,by definition,they will go above and be given priority over all the other needy people already on there who are not actually homeless but are nevertheless in need for other reasons.

DaveR Wrote: Sorry Tony, but both the company and the bus analogies are a bit off the mark. Council housing polices are designed to reflect need, pure and simple, and whether you are foreign or not does not figure. Obviously you are probably statistically more likely to be genuinely homeless if you are a refugee recently arrived in the UK than if you were born and bred here but the fact is that all homeless familes get priority over single adults or families who do have homes but want a council home instead. Your point is correct about the refugees DaveR but the salient point is surely " Obviously you are probably statistically more likely to be genuinely homeless if you are a refugee recently arrived in the UK"........... DaveR wrote: As to the Polish plumbers, don't you remember "Auf Wiedersehn Pet"? On balance we're all better off for having free movement (and would be even better off if various other European countries didn't cheat on their end of the deal). In the long term costs of living in Poland will rise and the wage differential will disappear. It's started already Polish builders aren't as cheap as they used to be! It is gradually changing and I hear some Polish Guys have returned as the differential is narrowing! However, I know a few "Late-40's/50 somethings" British workers who have lost out and are,realistically,unlikely to benefit from The Free Trade situation.

Izodia Wrote: But surely the Eastern Europeans working cheaply here are living here too...so they have to pay UK> expenses too and still manage to send money home. Hi! Of course that is correct but most of the Guys I know live in Groups in a single accomodation and share resources and expenses between them and have no mortgage to pay here which is,invariably,the most considerable expense. "Tony, to go back to something you said earlier..if not being able to get a council house meant you went and got a mortgage instead then surely you didn't really need the council house in the first place? ...... I was left some money from my Late Aunt that changed my circumstances Izodia . I had been on the Waiting List for 8 years with my local Council (which had the highest percentage of Council-owned property in the whole Country) and without that money would have still been there until I was able to afford to go "Private". I was also speaking for many other people at that time who also failed for many,many years to get a place. Remember in those times there WAS much more Council accomodation before The Thatcher Years.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: It's some of the facts Tony - I still don't see where you are going with any of this other than it apperas to be "stop all immigration" We have a moral obligation to provide shelter for people who are GENUINELY fleeing other Countries( whether there is any previous connection with "GB Ltd" or not. That should still stand as should exceptional circumstances (like the admirable Gurkhas) but the massive problem I feel Sean is that in Housing,in particulas,we haven't got the resources to just continually allow others to come unless its done on a Points bases system (a la Australasia) whereby the Guys coming here won't be dependent on us but will have made contingency plans for Housing and work which is what DaveR alluded to. Allied to this is the pitiful amount of funded accomodation these days so that we have a system where some/many people born here can never get social housing even though they may be struggling but are not at the top of the pile,and have contributed into our system all their lives. Ex-Pats?...Are the Guys in their own little Colony in Spain affecting the everyday life of the average Spaniard in any shape or form? .Surely the answer is No. How many of them want Spanish Social Housing and are dependent on their Host Nation? .Few,I would suggest. Its the same principle in Australia/NZ/Canada/USA etc. Surely,by definition these days(the ?10 package has long gone) they have to meet certain criteria based on a Points system to be able to gain entry into those Countries. Of course,there are always exceptions,but surely most of the 5.5 Million who have departed over recent years are NOT dependent on their Host Nation to support them.. If they could not proove that they could support themselves and their Families then they would not be allowed entry,in the first place!:))

As Bobby Vee is correct:)) Rubber Ball.

As regards the rhetorical jobs point... Whether I,and others, like it we have to accept that Employers will pay as little as they have to and given the following :- 1/ We have had a large influx of the stereotypical "Poles" etc who have come here to work hard to,primarily,send monies home to their Families. 2/ The cost of living in the Balkan States and Eastern Europe IS considerably cheaper. 3/ Thus the "Poles etc" are able to take less wages per hour because of "2". 4/ That Employers will (and have) latched onto this and offered less wages per hour,accordingly. 5/ That the average workman already here with the usual UK expenses needs more than they are currently willing to pay to be able to keep his/her head above water and financially manage. 6/ That effectively they will then be priced out of jobs or take wages that would be perfectly acceptable to live in Eastern Europe but are far below what is needed here (particularly in London Town). Stage 7: Many Plumbers/Electricians/Builders are (and were) priced out of jobs accordingly. This is ASSuming all other things are equal like "Work Ethic2 and "Qualifications" etc.... Dems the facts!B)

"by definition if a Family or individual arrives from abroad to live here and thus present themselves to their Local Council they are immediutely classified as "Homeless" and placed at the top of the waiting list with all other Homeless Families whether they were previously resident here or not" DaveR "Most people arriving from abroad are not homeless when they get here - they have made plans..." "and thus present themselves to their Local Council ".....I was only referring to the Guys coming from abroad who are doing this not to the other individuals/families who have made contingency plans.

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote: ...Duplicate Post.

Brendan Wrote: So why should someone arriving from abroad be given the same preference as a UK national? :)) So to continue the rhetorical theme.... I will catch a Bus later. Now I should be given the same preference as someone else doing likewise,who is ALREADY at the Bus Stop in the queue. So does mean there is not a queue now? I'm now EQUALLY at the front(or the middle/back of the queue) with them? Surely we all have the same goal but they were there b4 me so I have to join the queue BEHIND them when the circumstances are "similar"...Do you agree(question goes to Sean as well B) that this is only fair?B)

Thank You for your rhetorical points Brendan/Sean but I'll tell you what I'll do for you as it doesn't matter what contributions one has made to something,clearly. Would you two kindly form a Business Partnership. Work every hour under the sun to make it a success and when years later you have finally achieved this goal and firmly established yourselves as "SeanBren International Ltd". I will,AS A FAVOUR MIND(!), deign to join you as an equal Partner coming in from the outside having made no contribution initially,whatsoever. Do we have a deal? If so,GET CRACKING GUYS!!B) I'll join you in around 2010/11 and perhaps to reflect my equal status we could then be "SeanBrenTls International Ltd":)).... I can feel the ???'s and Punts rolling in as I speak. Luvly Jubbly>:D< I trust thats O.K. as its a similar principle.

Keef Wrote: They're not given PRIORITY because they're from abroad. If a person is homeless... they'd get exactly the same service! Dems the facts! True Keef but isn't the point that "Homelessness" is THE Number One priority when each Local Council decides who should receive Council assisted accomodation and by definition if a Family or individual arrives from abroad to live here and thus present themselves to their Local Council they are immediutely classified as "Homeless" and placed at the top of the waiting list with all other Homeless Families whether they were previously resident here or not. Thus all the other needy Families,by definition, slip one place further down the waiting list for each Family or individual arriving in this way.

Bump it up for you as you need urgent advice b4 you lose others.

This Boy-The Beatles

???? Wrote: TLS - don't hold your breath, if you're white, british and working class you're scum....and will be accused of racism for raising the point Sadly,my profile is worse than that,much worse,in fact....and I have a further confession to make (although,to be fair I think its become quite apparent now)... I'm also mmmm...can't even bring myself to write it down. I'll try again and write it down as "discreetly" as possible..... I'm mmmmmmale as well (hopefully I disguised that word as well as I could)..What a Combo for 2008 :)) but there is one cause for celebration though! Drum Roll please Maestro:- Remember it is working people who have paid all their taxes and other deductions throughout( in my case 37 working years) that are funding this and NOT the Governments or Local Councils who have no money of their own. This means that many of the Guys who could NOT get any property through the social housing schemes either now or in the past are helping to contribute and subsidise those who have come here and paid nothing whatsoever by way of taxes and have obtained Council assisted Housing (!) I,re-iterate a very salient point. This subsidy of others who have been forced to flee from wartorn Countries ( by no means the majority) to The UK would be much more acceptable if they themselves could have received the same benefits which in many cases from The Late 1960's onwards were denied to them when THEY were desperately in need of them! So they not only have to contend with the fact that the system has been heavily biased against them for decades but have to help pay for people who have leapfrogged over them in the queue and have gained said Housing who have not paid anything at all (in some cases).>:D< p.s Its akin to someone who is,say,24-26 years old now, trying to gain a Promotion within the same Company for the next 15 years without success and when a promotional opportunity finally arises not only does it go to someone coming in from elsewhere but they are forced to contribute to his/her greater salary,as well.:))

Chris Farlowe is correct Sue. I'm A Man-Chicago.

I suspect that not many contributors on this thread,thus far,have attempted to gain Council funded accommodation in any shape or form.:)) It would be fascinating to hear from anyone here who continually, for literally decades, could not obtain said assistance from their local Council during that period and how they feel about someone with no previous allegiance or connection with this Country arriving and receiving PRIORITY service over themselves! Can anyone explain to me why any Family arriving legitimately from abroad should be given PRIORITY over the indigenous population of this Country when it comes to Local Government assisted housing? I'm reminded of a friend who told me around 6 months ago that there would be no accomodation available from his local Council for years to come. Who were that Council? Why the very same = Ealing!