rendelharris

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How nationalisisng and freezing fares will solve > overcrowded over stretched services without a > massive investment from THE TAXPAYER is beyond my > logic - can someone explain how 2+2=5 > > It's dogma - don't believe it. But some of us want massive investment from the taxpayer, funded by some tax rises for those who can well afford it and closing of all offshore loopholes. Sensibly managed infrastructure investment will increase employment, tax revenues and reduce spending on benefits. And if there's one bit of infrastructure that needs investment, it's the railways. ETA: And, as many economists have pointed out, at a time of historic low interest rates which we may not see again in decades if ever, what better time for a programme of borrowing for infrastructure investment?

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Answering the phone to a "I understand you were > involved in an accident that wasn't your fault" > caller, which gives me the chance to reply "Oh you > mean the one I died in" > > The joy of the long pause before the phone going > dead, is immeasurable Ah, thank you, another arrow in the quiver. My tried and trusted has been "Oh my God, was I? Have I been hurt?"

JoeLeg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Personally if they're going after cyclists (which > I agree is probably not the best use of police > resources) I'd rather they found a way to get guys > like the one who went through two red lights at > the crossroads of Peckham Rye and East Dulwich Rd > while the green man was showing and I was crossing > with my six year old kid and ripped past us at > high speed. They drive me (more) insane - if you ever see me out on the streets I'm easily identifiable as the mad middle-aged bloke on a bike shouting "red light, you ****" at cyclists who ride by me as I wait for the lights to turn green. I'm all for police nicking them (though not in the ridiculous circumstances outlined by Dirac above). However, this sounds more like a sting operation by police to catch people crossing five yards of pavement at a stupidly designed intersection.

alice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?2 > 0,1624090,page=1 > > an excellent suggestion was made in a previous > thread No Alice, it wasn't an excellent suggestion (how big is your ego, by the way?!) and most people who posted disagreed with it. I particularly liked one very succinct response: alice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have had a great idea. but would it be popular? No you haven't. No it wouldn't.

Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Two police officers were stopping cyclists where > Rye Lane begins (opposite the library/arch), and > where lots of cyclists ride on the pavement. It > looked like they were issuing fines. > Cyclists tend to get to the end of the (admittedly > naff/camouflaged) cycle lane and then not follow > the curved bit but dash across the pedestrian bit > but the police were having none of it. Thanks for the heads-up...I never use that cycle lane anyway but carry on round the road and up Bellenden Road, simply because it's so poorly designed it's always full of pedestrians and then down Rye Lane nobody really knows what bit's for cyclists and what's not. Still, good to know that the boys in blue have got their priorities straight, not as if nearly 10% of cars in SE London are being driven without any insurance...

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I noted the other day that female gymnasts seem to > be the chronological opposite to policemen. They > seem to look older these days. Since 1997 there's been a lower age limit of 16 for all senior competition, so your impression is accurate.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've often thought of that, PR, but was put off by > all the stories about what medical students get up > to with them. Do you think that kind of thing has > stopped? Most of those were urban myths I think - any student caught doing that, at least nowadays, would immediately be disbarred. Good article about it here: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/10/body-medical-research-donate-death-science-brain which seems to indicate the utmost sensitivity is employed. Often considered it myself, apart from anything else it would save the family funeral expenses.

Zebedee Tring Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I thought that Thameslink and Southern were part > of the same group (and indeed same franchise). So > PR is really managed by the same group as DH. Yep, Govia hold Thameslink, Southern, Gatwick Express, Great Northern, London Midland and Southeastern franchises. The great selling point for privatisation was that once we got rid of monopolies there would be healthy competition which could only benefit passengers (sorry, customers). And if you believe that worked please PM me about a gold brick and some magic beans I have to sell...

Planned my playlist years ago when certain things seemed to indicate I was due an early bath: If I have to go - Tom Waits Hey that's no way to say goodbye - Leonard Cohen Rainy night in Soho - The Pogues Chopin Etude #3 in E major

Robert Poste's Child Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > On the darker side, a 70s childhood was > overshadowed by the Cold War (spy films seemed > relevant), the IRA starting terrorist attacks on > the mainland, and the strangely intimidating > mystery of the Iron Curtain. Plus there was beige, lots and lots of beige...I remember a particular Morris Marina with burnt orange paintwork and beige leatherette seats that was a crime against aesthetics. True story - it was in The Guardian a couple of years back: a guy who'd gone blind in the 70s was finally cured by a pioneering operation in the 2000s. It was all very sweet - he'd got married after going blind so was seeing his wife and kids for the first time, and so on, but he kept complaining that his vision wasn't right, everything was so bright..eventually after showing him photos of the 70s the doctors worked out he simply hadn't yet acclimatised to a world that wasn't beige!

Do some black people express their identity and vocalise their sense of injustice and oppression through the Nation of Islam? Does the Nation of Islam advocate hate positions against other groups? If the answer to both of those is yes, does any person not have a right to criticise that group, no matter what their enthnicity? Yes, it's an extreme example, but WM specifically said that no white person has zero right, zero place, to criticise any way in which a minority person or group choose to express their identity or vocalise their sense of injustice or oppression. "my gut reaction to criticizing different members of the black diaspora for wanting to unify in a single movement and in so doing it broaden its focus to incorporate other civil rights issues beyond just shootings struck me as...odd. I'll leave it at that." Please don't leave it at that - you clearly imply that there's an element of racism in the criticism. If that's what you want to say, have the courage to say it rather than leave a coy little hint.

WorkingMummy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Speaking as a privileged white woman, I consider > myself to have zero right, zero place, to tell any > minority group, or person, how to express their > identity, or to vocalise their sense of injustice > and oppression. That is simply absurd. Nobody can critique any minority group's choice of protest if they're white? Let's take an extreme example, the Nation of Islam. That is a group through which some black people express their identity and vocalise their sense of injustice and oppression: it's also a group which is deeply antisemitic, expresses vehement hatred of LGBT people and advocates racial separation. Do you refuse to criticise those views as you're a privileged white woman? There are many mountains to climb before we reach even a semblance of racial equality; liberal self-flagellation isn't going to help us on that journey.

miga Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In fairness - the thread seems to have been > started in reaction to the BLM protest at > Heathrow, and should maybe have been entitled - > "the applicability of BLM to the UK". Yes, I think there's rather a lot of talking at cross purposes going on here, with some thinking that questioning the purpose of BLM UK equates to questioning BLM USA.

Annasfield Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > If it was that. He was alone and he wasn't > laughing when he clearly saw I was terrified. > > Was it solo drivers when it happened to you? No, always been two or more young blokes. That does make it rather more worrying, I realise - if you have the inclination to pursue it I wonder if the police could dig up any CCTV on him? Though without any actual contact taking place I doubt they'd do much, unfortunately. Scary. I wonder if he misidentified you - had an altercation with another cyclist, went round the block and came back and thought it was you? Still utterly unforgivable, but better than the alternative of a total psychopath being on the loose...

civilservant Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I understand the reluctance to jump on the BLM > band-wagon, but we need to look at the UK figures > before getting too complacent > > According to the Prison Reform Trust, "Out of the > British national prison population, 10% are black > and 6% are Asian. For black Britons this is > significantly higher than the 2.8% of the general > population they represent. (...) According to the > Equality and Human Rights Commission, there is now > greater disproportionality in the number of black > people in prisons in the UK than in the United > States." > > I'm sure that I can find the figures about UK > racial disproportionality in toughness of > sentencing if you ask nicely. > > so if we want to craft our own band-wagon, there's > plenty of material from which to build it. > the question is, do you want to, or is this thread > just a convenient stick with which to beat the > 'political correct'? If you're referring to my use of the term bandwagon, I feel I should make it clear I wasn't necessarily saying BLM over here was bandwagon jumping, just that it does offer opportunities for opponents to characterise it as that. There is massive disproportion in sentencing in the UK, with BAME defendants 25% more likely to be jailed for similar crimes and when jailed receiving, on average, around 20% longer sentences. There are many other problems which also need addressing. The question I was asking was simply is adopting a USA movement which exists mainly to protest against something which really is not a problem in the UK - i.e. the shooting of unarmed young black men - the best way to go about protesting about these issues? If the BLM protestors in the UK are protesting about the shootings in the USA then fine (though as someone mentioned above, the US embassy would seem the logical place to do that), but I've certainly been given the impression that they're protesting about the treatment of black people in the UK. That's not, by the way, saying 'we don't really think you have it that bad, so just be quiet.' It's saying yes you do have it bad, yes you should make a noise, is this the most appropriate/effective way of doing so?

There is a tiny group of drivers, but worryingly seemingly becoming larger, who get some pathetic kick out of "buzzing" cyclists by swerving across the road at them or seeing how close they can pass at high speed - creeping up behind and suddenly leaning on the horn is another favourite. It's happened to me and several friends more than once this year, though thankfully not in as dramatic a way as you describe. I know what you mean about being too shaken to get the plate, they're usually well out of range by the time the astonishment wears off. Glad you're OK and hope it doesn't put you off riding. Best, Rendel

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Surely 'black live matter' is an incontrovertible > truism. In the wake of some high profile shootings > of unarmed black men, it seems to me like a > completely appropriate slogan around which to > campaign. I don't get the objections. Absolutely no objection to it in the States, just slightly uneasy about its adoption here as if we have the same problems on the same scale. I feel a home grown black rights movement addressing issues such as disproportionate use of S&S, discrepancies in sentencing for the same offences etc would be both more effective and less open to ridicule/dismissal as bandwagon jumping.

It now has a Southwark Parking Notice on it, so we'll see what happens. Thanks for all the suggestions!

lavender27 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Does anyone know what happened on the East Dulwich > Estate today, news report on radio of an incident > but did not give details. There was a shooting yesterday afternoon, is that what they meant? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/east-dulwich-shooting-armed-police-called-after-man-shot-by-gunman-a3313441.html

Blah Blah wrote: >The UK is not comparable, except in terms of the disproportionate numbers of black people who have died in Police custody. That's why I feel it would be better to have our own movement with its own identity and agenda, rather than forming a branch of an American movement which fights an issue which isn't really as much of an issue over here. Just for interest I did a little bit of number crunching on the Inquest figures I linked to above. I'm a bit hesitant in putting them out for fear of being accused of belittling the issue or similar, but I do think they make an interesting point for debate: Deaths in police custody or by (police) shooting (England and Wales): Year BAME deaths All deaths % of deaths BAME 2016 1 21 5% 2015 5 31 16% 2014 6 32 19% 2013 2 31 6% 2012 1 24 4% 2011 9 33 27% 2010 1 27 4% 2009 4 30 13% 2008 8 64 13% 2007 8 54 15% 2006 6 66 9% 2005 10 93 11% 2004 2 97 2% 2003 11 104 11% 2002 9 88 10% 2001 7 73 10% 2000 4 65 6% *Percentage rounded to nearest whole number The BAME population of England and Wales has remained fairly constant at around 13.5% since 2000. So BAME deaths from police contact, in the last seventeen years, have, in eleven of those years, statistically, been disproportionately low, in two years they have been just about exactly what would be predicted, and in four years they have been disproportionately high. So, as above, I feel that although every one of those deaths, BAME and white, is tragic, every one needs to be properly investigated (which many haven't) and protested where necessary, the issue of police killings, which is what BLM exists for, simply isn't the same in the UK as in the USA (where every year BAME deaths are way above what could be predicted statistically). It's far more important here to protest the disproportionate use of stop and search against BAME, the under-representation of BAME at all levels of the police and judiciary, discrimination in employment etc. This is just an opinion and a few facts I thought some might find interesting, just trying to contribute to debate, not start an argument! Cheers, Rendel ETA: I realise that in quoting figures for BAME there's no definition of how many of those were black, which could make a big difference in terms of ratios. But in any case the numbers are still very small (though every one a tragedy) compared to what BLM are protesting against in the USA, e.g. as above, last year 31 people (5 BAME) died as a result of police contact in England and Wales, last year in the USA 1,134 - 35x more for a population 6x larger.

miga Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nigello Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I agree with the sentiment and acknowledge the > > facts but I still think there is an element of > > confection, a syntheticness about this UK > version > > of the movement in the US. > > > I guess the local version would be "Black youths > deserve not to be singled out for stop-and-search, > given that so few arrests are made following these > and it creates ill feeling in the community" but > it's not as snappy. > > On a more serious note, all this stuff makes me > grateful to be living in this state where the > police don't typically behave like overbearing > neanderthals and the gangs are thankfully still > just a soft version of their Yank inspirations. I guess the slogan over here should be "Black People Matter." I know it's only semantics but BLM (USA) is a direct response to the shocking wave of more or less executions of innocent black people by police officers. In the UK, where three BAME people have been shot dead by police since 2008, we just don't have the same issue - lots and lots of other issues around race and policing, but not really that one. I just feel that adopting the US name lays the movement open to accusations of sensationalism, of protesting against something that isn't really an issue, which will then be used to ignore the really serious points being made.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I also can't understand how the BLM people in the > UK do not understand, or consider, how Mark Duggan > and Jean Charles de Menezes etc got themselves in > a position where they were killed by the police. Jean Charles de Menezes "got" himself in a position to be killed by police by getting up and going to work, sitting down in a tube carriage where armed officers jumped on him, pinned him down and shot him seven times in the head at close range.

Offered without prejudice (though I agree with Nigello above that while it is necessary to protest against the undoubted racism in this country, adopting a movement wholesale from the US, where the problems are very different, is not necessarily appropriate), the figures for deaths from police contact (in custody, by shooting, died during pursuit) are well worth perusing to help informed debate (from Inquest): Deaths of BAME persons from police contact: http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/bame-deaths-in-police-custody All deaths from police contact: http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody Interesting reading and a varied picture, e.g. this year to date, one BAME death out of 21 total, lower than would be statistically expected for a BAME population of around 13%, 2011 9 out of 33, way higher than would be expected.

almost peckham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It came up the one way bit of copleston on monday > early eve, saw it while we were out with the dog. > Rumbling along very slowly (us and the bus) with > two blokes in the front not looking like they knew > where they were going or what might lie ahead of > them - ie, loads of tight corners and streets not > really big enough for coaches. They tried making > the right into oxenford before giving in and > setting off back up copleston. It does make the > junction unsighted and pretty hazardous. I always > thought something this big, similarly to anything > bigger than a 3.5t truck, needed to have provable > off-road parking. Well, it's still there! Haven't heard anything back from the council or the coach company (though I suspect those above who surmise it's not on their books any more may well be right). So it's probably here for the weekend...I shall keep an eye out for any signs of life and try again Monday. Already heard two furious hooting confrontations this evening - people turning into Soames Street simply can't see anyone trying to get out, it's a ridiculous place to leave such a large vehicle.

I entirely understand the sentiment and the anger of the BLM movement, but it does sound a little isolationalist, as if only black lives matter (which is not at all their point, but it sounds like it). Why not "Black Lives Matter Too"?