Mick Mac

matthew123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bloody hell didn't someone else post that few days > ago on this same thread (think it was quids) :-S Thats why he is called jimmy 2 times.

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bare nipple is usually the dead give away for > Masons. Did your eyes reach that far? We can't give you your dignity back - thats gone for good. But you can have your money back, from paddy power.

Thanks It was the implication in your previous post that bigotry was at the root cause of Northern Ireland's problems. I think the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland are good people who were put in a difficult situation. My view is that poor governance created a divided society and this is bound to lead to bigotry where profound inequalities exist. Britain did not take sufficient care to ensure that the province it created in 1922 was fair and democratic and this is the root cause of the problems.

Bump > A lad from Portrush leads the US Open - never > thought I would see that. Graeme McDowell. > > Had a punt on him before the final round. But just > out of patrioticism would be great to see him win. > No Northern Irishman has won a major since Fred > Daly. > > The US Open is a huge ask to be your first major > win though - but hope he can do it. Currently 2 > clear entering the back nine. > > > > > HE HAS WON IT - BRILLIANT. WHAT A BIG BIG WIN. > > A european has not won the US Open since 1970 and > none before that for a long time.

A lad from Portrush leads the US Open - never thought I would see that. Graeme McDowell. Had a punt on him before the final round. But just out of patrioticism would be great to see him win. No Northern Irishman has won a major since Fred Daly. The US Open is a huge ask to be your first major win though - but hope he can do it. Currently 2 clear entering the back nine. HE HAS WON IT - BRILLIANT. WHAT A BIG BIG WIN. A european has not won the US Open since 1970 and none before that for a long time.

Santerne - you must be going for a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious. Much of what you have said is with the benefit of hindsight, mapping some more obvious points in the development of a fairer society from an unfair one. None of this would have happended however without the civil rights movement and peaceful and non peaceful protest. Peaceful protest was found to have been futile in the face of a forces of law and order determined and encouraged to stamp out any change. The catholic population chose to became educated as there were few employment opportunities. Also it allowed them to create their own opportinities, businnesses and professional support services. They were encouraged to do so by all catholic leaders and politicians, to dig their own way out of poverty and what you refer to as "slums". Bigotry on both sides is unavoidable if an unfair society is allowed to fester and is even promoted. You highlight bigotry as the main reason for northern ireland's problems, but bigotry was not the problem, it was a by product of an unfair society that britain created in 1922 and positively encouraged thereafter. This situation creates great tension between the communities. You call it bigotry. You seem to imply the people of Northern Ireland have in some way grown out of the bigotry of their parents. I can assure you that their parents were in general the most noble of people, who lived through tough times and most on both sides were mis represented by their more extreme politicians. Most lived side by side in most towns in Northern Ireland and got on with their lives despite the position they were in and what went on around them. Please don't try to put this problem down to "bigotry" of the Northern Irish people, on either side. In short your post is extremely patronising to all of them.. Today's generation are not bigots as the situation they are in is much improved from that of their parents, to which they owe a great debt of thanks, as their parents made great sacrifices during a process of change. Bloody Sunday was evidence of the fact that Britian was very keen to keep this unfair society in place and it was a long time before they were willing to accept the error of their approach. A lot of people suffered in drawing attention to the need for change, these people were not bigots, but a people forced apart by poor governance.

Domitianus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am glad that lessons were learnt at the time. I > think it's a crying shame that those lessons were > learnt in private so to speak, behind closed > doors,whilst the official version via Widgery was > that there really was nothing significant to be > learnt. If the Widgery Report had admitted what > we all now know and had clearly set out a need for > urgent reform I think that the impact of Bloody > Sunday would have been less than it was. I'm not sure about that - We should not lose sight of the fact that a Widgery Report stating the facts at the time would have done very little to improve the situation. Widgery was wrong but it was only a bit of paper, Bloody Sunday was real. The deed was done and there was a huge escalation in violence and hundreds of bombs as a result of Bloody Sunday before the Widgery Report was published. Widgery rubbed salt in the wounds, but the people of Derry knew what happended that day and did not need a report to tell them. They were probably shocked at the arrogance of the Widgery Report but it was nothing like as insulting as the act of Bloody Sunday itself. No report changes that, but ultimatley Saville has helped the govt come clean and helped people in Derry to say to the world, that yes Bloody Sunday did happen, exactly in the way they had said it did for 38 years and now we have a written confirmation that it happended. The Civil Rights march on Bloody Sunday sang "We shall overcome" A brother of one of the victims, last Tuesday in 2010 said into his microphone "We have overcome". There was a lot to overcome in 1972, but it got worse before it got better.

katie1997 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > woofmarkthedog Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > 1. He's a golf robot > > > > 2. He's mega rich > > > > 3. He's got a big "bat" & can go all night > > > So.....you've met my ex-husband then? I guess 2 > out of 3 isn't bad. > > 'Sudden success in golf is like the sudden > acquisition of wealth. It is apt to unsettle and > deteriorate the character.'* > > *PGW, naturally. Wodehouse - I'm impressed Katie....(not sure anyone else will be though)

.Im not sure i have ever fallen asleep during a football match before last night. Highlight of the night were the replays of fabio. Thought they were very amusing. He was not a happy bunny.

yes 2 winners from 5 today so big up on 2 days. Left early to get home to watch footie with wife as i always prioritise family.... Yes was on lillie langtry - she was a narrow loser last year but stuck with her.

Won on last 3 races...

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What an excellent post. Agreed. All made good reading. And good to see Pgc make an appearance too, without saying very much.....'smiley'

sounds good to me.

SCSB79. Tuesday will be remembered as an honourable day for the British Government, where it recognised that mistakes had been made and openly apologised for those mistakes. Don't try to tarnish a good deed. [Edited as first effort was too personal.]

Is it the first big shock? Spain losing so far.

My wife speaks about Martin Lewis as if he is God - just because he saves her a tenner every so often with his money saving tips. I dread to think what would happen if she actually met him.

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Just can't get my head around the use of the word > "justice" in asking for the truth. Probably > shouldn't bug me so much, but it does. > The justice is that this Inquiry confirms those who died were innocent - The original 1972 Inquiry implied those who died had done something to deserve being shot - that wrong has now been put right, the change from the implication of guilt to confirmation of innocence is the "justice" the families have been seeking ever since the original Widgery Report.

Did he mean you ? are you a rock legend ?

There will be no prosecutions Michael P . So I hope your point will not be of real relevance. However we have the right to expect our forces of law and order to be exactly that, people we trust to enforce law and order. Their actions should not be compared in any way to those of terrorists. Heads of State do not stand up in Parliaments and in the view of the world, make apologies for the actions of terrorists, but they do so where the forces of law and order have killed innocent people. This does not happen very often, thankfully. Therefore when it does happen, it is significant. Eamon McCann, who helped organise that civil rights march was on News 24 tonight - He said today that when he heard the report he felt like floating up to the ceiling of the Guildhall, he felt so good that the truth was properly acknowledged. Edward Daly - said a burden had been lifted from his shoulders today. Lots of innocent people died in the Troubles. Many on all sides. People killed by the IRA, their families know that they have been illegally killed. We feel for all of them today. But to be killed by the state forces needs an apology, and today that finally came. David Cameron's statement was as clear, honest and open as can be. I admire him greatly for that. It is interesting that he began by saying how deeply patriotic he was and rightly proud of the armed forces, which is what most people feel, but I suspect until recently he did not know the full extent of Bloody Sunday, until it was confirmed by a Law Lord:

you only just found out? Glad she is quicker off the mark than you old boy.

From the BBC website: 1534 David Cameron says the conclusions of this report "are absolutely clear". What happened on Bloody Sunday was "unjustifiable and wrong", he says. No warning was given to any civilians before soldiers opened fire. None of the soldiers fired in response to attacks by petrol bombers or stone-throwers. Some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying. 1538 None of the casualties was posing a threat or doing anything that would justify their shooting, David Cameron says. There is no point in trying to soften or equivocate what is in this report :the events of Bloody Sunday were not justified, he says. Mr Cameron adds: "What happened should never, ever have happened - some members of our armed forces acted wrongly. On behalf of our government and our country I am deeply sorry." That is a significant apology, for which many people will be grateful. Its what was needed and ends a long wait.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Goldikova, That's all Goldi looks a strong favourite, but I'll back Rip as "he's my favourite". First time out this season, he is unlikley to win though, so just a small bet. But he has the class if he is ready. Looks a fantastic curtain raiser for Ascot week.

MM - I don't expect or want anyone to be prosecuted as a result of this. That would be inapprorpiate. An apology would be good. Your comparison with killings by terrorists/paramilitaires is inappropriate - we need to expect our forces to act within the law, not lower themselves to the level of terrorists.

Brendan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > It didn?t change the past but it did make everyone > feel like a weight had been lifted. Spot on Brendan.

It's in the past, that's correct. But there was a right time to make an apology for the wrongs of that day but its better late than never. Let's hope that apology comes today. Its nothing to do with ploitical idealism or IRA bullies. Its the most extreme example of when our government and our forces turned their guns on innocent British civilians. Tony Blair had many faults but he was correct in setting up this Inquiry and it has the potential to heal a lot of wounds.