Lordship 516

On

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > rendelharris Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > I don't understand, what is "tenuous" about the > fact that the DUP, with whom May is consorting to > > remain in power, offer tacit support to a > terrorist group? > > Nothing at all. But LL's post suggested, and you > backed up, that because she was consorting with > the DUP, she now is considered 'mates' with an > ex-Loyalist paramilitary with a lot of blood on > his hands and some extremely dodgy NI police > offices from 1994. > > Which is why I didn't mention LL's first link - > that one seemed a pretty fair call. But the other > two? Yes, very, very tenuous. Only tenuous if you want it to be. If you can see the connection between the DUP link to the UVF in the first link then the other two links just serve to demonstrate just what the UVF represent in reality. I know this, you know this & May knows this; yet she continues to consort with these awful people. Hopefully she will soon dump them and see them off. Rendel's point about Corbyn is apposite; Corbyn has travelled many roads in his life but he has always been true to peace & mediation. He has never condoned violence; in fact he has in the past regularly condemned the IRA violence, as he also condemned so-called Loyalist violence & violence by the British Army also. The establishment don't like this & want to punish him for it. May is flirting with a situation that is not only unethical but down right dangerous and has the capacity to derail years & years of hard won peace in NI. Consorting with the DUP/UVF keeping her in power is not worth that price. Listen to Sir John Major - regarded as a principled hero in both countries who in the face of huge opposition proceeded with the peace proposition in NI even though he depended on Unionist votes for his survival.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > These are Thearse May's new mates ..... > > > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nort > > > > hern-ireland-dup-mp-uvf-terror-flags-outcry-uproar > > > > -emma-little-pengelly-south-belfast-a7800846.html > > > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/gary-ha > > > > ggarty-murder-terror-offences-ulster-volunteer-for > > > ce-belfast-a7804371.html > > > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lou > > > > ghinisland-shooting-police-officers-colluded-with- > > > > loyalist-gunmen-who-gunned-down-six-catholics-a707 > > > 2261.html > > what do the second and third links have to do with > the PM? UVF --> DUP --> The interim PM, who must have an idea about their connections by now..? ...and is prepared to have a convenient arrangement with them to keep her in power..? ...what price power..what price peace..? ...although it seems she is having second thoughts...DUP pushing for a hard bargain... Now being termed 'Arlene's Killer Deal'...amnesty for all their murdering friends plus loads of dosh [to make up for their Cash for Ash scam, I suppose]; May will be DUPed as will the DUP - No PM has the authority to grant any amnesty, particularly not for political convenience & power politics - or have they...? Better she would resign rather than sup with DUP. No need to do any deal with them as they will always support her against Jeremy Corbyn getting his hands on the levers of power. You couldn't say the same for Johnson, Gove & other ToryBots, though.

Reel

These are Thearse May's new mates ..... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-dup-mp-uvf-terror-flags-outcry-uproar-emma-little-pengelly-south-belfast-a7800846.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/gary-haggarty-murder-terror-offences-ulster-volunteer-force-belfast-a7804371.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/loughinisland-shooting-police-officers-colluded-with-loyalist-gunmen-who-gunned-down-six-catholics-a7072261.html

company

steveo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > De rigeur humourless offence taking ..eh? a bit of a foreign language there, steveo..! What the eff are ye on about, chappie..?

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > steveo Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > If you've ever tried to do a deal with an > Irishman > > over a car, tractor, house, horse or gram of > > speed, you'll be familiar with all the > posturing, > > bullying, leaving the room, coming back in > again, > > foul language, threats of violence and general > > wailing and gnashing of teeth with which it is > > accompanied. > > > > What you don't do is quickly agree a price, > shake > > hands and leave the room happy... either of > you. > > > > There's a very long way to go yet > > An Irishman? I'm missing the context here. Please > enlighten me as I'm unfamiliar with your > description. Me neither - seems stevo might be a bit of a grandstander himself? Also a tad racist ? How about watching English away fans at a football match ? Describe & apply to all English people.

incomplete

Theory

Jenny1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That makes sense. I'll have a look at Hahnel. > Gross economic inequality is iniquitous and makes > for a sadder society. But my instincts are always > towards working to improve the current imperfect > status quo rather than revolutionary change. The > former approach usually leads to more profound and > lasting improvements in my view. I agree with you entirely on that. Using the existing frameworks is the only way to survive & causes least disruption. The experiments in Russia, China & elsewhere have proven catastrophic but the manner in which Sweden, Norway & other similar countries have moderated their economies has proven a good model to emulate but with a few slight changes - they are still fairly dominated by mega rich families.

Lower

Foreign

Jenny1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > keano77 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Did Mark Carney use the words 'Project Economic > > Suicide'? If so in what context? > > > > Do you know, that's all my own!! But I'm not going > to trademark the phrase, as I feel sharing is > important. > > Mark Carney used much more diplomatic and > technical language. Jenny1 You are not so far off the mark. There is a well respected economist - Robin Hahnel - who has pursued this theme in a many writings & a book "Economic Justice and Democracy" where he discusses how the elite are engaging in policies that are destroying our economies; this is in association with right wing, centre right & centre left parties throughout the western economies and warns that they are very much untouchable for all the reasons that Corbyn & co rail against. The wealth of the wealthy top 1% is mobile & they & their families are not affected by the same economic conditions as are the rest us us. They have leveraged & co-opted the services of most political parties, legal & accounting consultants, the googles, Facebooks & Murdoch's of the world and don't care that the health, education & welfare systems are falling apart as they are not affected by these. These are the people who control the world, swan around the G7, G20, Bilderburg, Davos & other great conferences where they decide on more & more neoliberal austerity for the many in order they they & their well paid cohort of privileged hirelings prosper.

They cannot control the current spate of inflation which is lead by the already reduced value of the pound - inflation will rise regardless of rises in interest rates; they are opting to try to maintain employment & keeping interest low to help businesses that export & secondly holding back the impact of interest rate rises on personal borrowings. For them there is little choice - incomes will remain flat for the foreseeable future. The three members of the MPC that voted for increases are a bit detached from the realities of world that we find ourselves in. To eat the cake the Johnson has yabbered on about first you need the ingredients & then you have to bake it. The cupboard is frugal & the oven cold.

May

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The frog that must be kissed..........good article > on the DUP arrangement: > > http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-d > up-s-crush-on-britain-will-end-badly-1.3122516 A good commentary...but as you & I know, O'Toole was being overly soft & kindly in his description of the DUP. The rest of the UK will find out the hard way.

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > uncleglen Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I agree with keano77- the article is biased and > > from German so was probably instigated by > Merkel > > as they are scared stiff that France and > Germany > > are going to have to make up the shortfall. The > > whole tone of Juncker and others is obviously > that > > of toys being thrown out of the pram. The EU > will > > NEVER have a reasonable debate- it is so up > itself > > that it will just carry on demanding. > > The EU is up itself? > > Not the UK? The country that decided to leave and > then started making demands of the very thing it's > leaving. It's amazing all the guff & nonsense that is spoken about the EU & their vulnerability if they don't do a deal suitable to the UK. The EU would very much like to do a mutually suitable deal but if the UK push too much they will simply walk away. Take a look at what the Germans achieved when they took Eastern Germany in - they had problems [and still have some hangover] but they managed quite admirably & just got on with the job. They will do so again. Unfortunately the UK are in the role of supplicant and grandstanding will just not cut the mustard. Soft Brexit will suit the EU. With hard Brexit the UK will be very much on their own. If they go down the hard route then they will have control of their incoming borders but not the outgoing borders which will be busy with the ensuing exodus of many qualified personnel, both of foreign & UK origin who will be attracted elsewhere to stable jobs. Reality beckons.

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Silly boy Lordship, writing such puerile > nonsense. It appears that I struck a chord.... > > And my point about the precarious state of the > banking system in your land of milk and honey, > conveniently ignored? No different than some of the UK banks that went tits up...more to come after Brexit..?

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > titch juicy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > And anyway- to give an informed opinion, > perhaps > > you should listen to both sides of the story, > and > > offer a counter-argument to what's written > above. > > As the article started off badly, I suspect it > doesn't offer anything new or constructive to the > debate. I think you are talking bollix - you read it and it annoyed you to the extent that you found it is a reasonably accurate analysis but that is unpalatable to you...so you are just sulking & dismissing it out of hand. Confronting reality can be a hard medicine to take. As titch juicy said...Shut your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and ignore what's happening around you. I would advise to place a finger elsewhere also as you never know what oe who is sneaking up behind you..!

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeLeg Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Not an objective analysis, or just not one that > > you want to hear? > > Haven't read the article so can't comment on the > contents. suffice to say from the few reactions so > far it would appear to satisfy the remain mindset If you haven't read it then why make any comment? Seems a strange way of thinking to me. ...and perhaps the remain mindset is the best one for the future of the country after all the jingoistic ideologies & hurrahs are put to bed. You cannot eat a flag & the supposed glorious history won't feed anything but memories... If & when Brexit does actually happen in the 'hard' format it will quickly become plain to see that the net contribution of ?220million per week to the EU coffers was a good deal. The emigration issue could have been resolved within the UK's membership as there are more countries who want this sorted also, including France & Germany. Always beware what you wish for. What you have you should hold until something better comes along with certainty. Now certainty is a long, long way away.

In all of this unfortunate debacle we have all lost sight of the main issue... The care of the survivors & the recovery of the bodies of the dead so their families can mourn & bury the loved ones should be paramount. The government & the council are already watering down their commitments to house these people in a manner suitable to the wishes of those displaced & there appears to be a confusion surrounding the actual number of survivors. Someone needs to step up and get a grip. These survivors will live with flashbacks & debilitating guilt just for having survived. They need support, not only direct support but indirect support by not having to witness bickering & partisan arguments about who holds the moral high ground. They need to be made doubly secure of unwavering support from all the community come what may. The investigation must go ahead & get reported on regularly as facts are discovered but it ought not be accompanied with all this horrible commentary. Those responsible must be held to account & all documentation seized forthwith to show that the investigation is really serious and the investigation processed in a serious, diligent & respectful manner. Blame can come later when all the facts are opened up and examined in a forthright manner for all to see. The horrible vitriol that I have read in some publications is neanderthal, pouring scorn on these poor unfortunate people just because of their race or origin or wealth status. This is not the reaction one would expect from a civilized society & unfortunately the country's supposed Prime Minister has been unable to lead & articulate a sympathetic response. She appears unable to concentrate on anything much and this detracts from the job in hand - the apparatus of government needs leadership. It appears that , again, the Conservative Party interests come first, budgets & money second and the rest can just jolly well fit in. It is not good enough & has somehow got to change.

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I reckon Hammond fancies himself as PM > > OR maybe Andrea Loathsome could give it a go They are all positioning & jockying for their place in the queue... May hasn't long to go...

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > Not so - there is a common law obligation also. > Hiding behind specifications & clearances is not > > the whole story. A Developer/Architect/Builder > has a duty of care & can be held responsible > > regardless of what was specified - if it wasn't > so there is a possibility of condoning mistakes & > > even a conspiracy to defraud. The issue of > self-certification of installations is > > particularly important as the person doing the > certification is employed by the builder - not a > > healthy scenario & prone to pressure & abuse. > > > > I am working on a case where this very principle > is at issue. Prime cost v Costs-in-Use v > > Whole-of-Life-Costs where the Developer, > Builder, consultants & others are being held to > account > > for poor work & specification that have lead to > residents being required to stump up millions for > > remediation after they have bought their flats. > The residents have been winning the case and the > > developers/architects/builders have requested an > adjournment for settlement as the court has > > indicated they will reward compensation even > greater that has been claimed. > > > > A lot of the actors in this case will be held > culpable & rest assured they are this very day & > > every day for the future working with high > priced lawyers to try to save them from jail & > huge > > compensation for the victims & their families. > > > You are talking apples and oranges. There is a > huge difference between deciding who is at fault > for remedial work (civil case) vs corporate or > individual manslaughter (criminal case). One is on > the basis of a balance of probabilities and the > other is on the basis of 'beyond all reasonable > doubt'. > > If all the materials were certified for purpose, > the more likely scenario is that the Borough of > K&C will be found at civil fault and the treasury > will fork out compensation. But no individuals > will be found criminally responsible. > > If the materials were not certified (as Philip > Hammond has said) then we may see some people in > jail. In the case I?m involved with a civil solution is being found. however the judge in chambers referred to possible consideration of criminal negligence. In this awful Grenfell the consideration would all likely be criminal considerations of neglect, unjust enrichment, reckless behaviour, endangering human life etc...etc. The civil cases will flow from all that. Let's see how it all pans out - it won?t be pretty & some heads will roll for sure.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A general election now will be affected by > students being on vacation, which is likely to > affect the Labour vote. 'NOW' probably means September/October as the Tory party sort out their shit & the various recriminations settle down to a pattern that suits the 1922 Committee. A lot of positioning will go on before they finally get down to making a final decision. It will be a slow process to get to the final death rattle. The Labour Party will help them delay also - they will prosper from all the Tory machinations. It seems an early GE is inevitable; DUP influence will be short lived. The negotiations will be ongoing as it is civil servants who do the actual real negotiations - Ministers' participation is for window dressing only.