Chippy Minton

There's no "pervading feeling the public sector should suck it up" - a new BBC opinion poll this morning shows almost two thirds of people believe the strike is "justified."

Yes, I do think that's OK because public safety will not be compromised. Also, they are not being "treated" and their pensions are not "free". Their pensions are agreed as part of their contracts/terms and conditions and they already pay into their funds throughout their careers. The unions have already agreed to change this for new starters, but I do not think it's right that people who are already in the scheme, some for many decades, will have their pensions cut.

To be clear, all of the unions involved in this action have made it very, very clear that their members, inc nurses, have been asked NOT to put patients at any risk. The unions always believe that the NHS should run services which guarantee patient safety and their members understand their professional obligations in this regard. The unions are certainly not seeking to undermine this. The NHS employers have discussed the cover with the union reps and agreed what is considered to be a safe service - cover will follow the principle of "public holiday cover determined by professional and skilled staff."

Whilst I agree the turnout isn't high, far more than those that actually voted to strike will not go to work on Wednesday. Not voting is not a "no" vote, a number of non union members will not cross picket lines and a great deal of those that voted no to the strike in the ballot will still choose to strike on the day. The bigger picture is that the turnout is more reflective of the current apathy when in comes to voting - just look at the turnouts out this year's referendum, local elections, even the general election last year. It's also interesting to note that both this government and the last, have refused to consider trade union lobbying/suggestions that would make it easier to vote, thus increasing turnouts. At a time when many people are criticising the turnout in elections, if they allowed the trade unions to implement some of their ideas it would provide an opportunity to learn how we could increase turnout in elections etc.

Up to three million are set to strike over this issue. Do you recommend they all resign?

I'm not making any point about a "right to strike" by teachers or anyone else for that matter. It's the assertion that it's going to "dramatically" affect their education! http://eddiedeguzman.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cartoon-bang-head-jpg.gif?w=200&h=200

ladywotlunches - I didn't deny it's inconvient, it's the perceived affect on their education that seems bizzare. Also, I'm not sure why you think that working in the private sector means people don't have the backing of a union. There are more private sector trade union members in this country than public sector. Otta - agreed. Every strike will inconvience someone, somewhere. People only get annoyed when it affects them..."my kids go to school so teachers shouldn't be allowed to strike; I go to work on the tube so tube workers shouldn't be allowed to strike; I'm going on holiday so British Airways shouldn't be allowed to strike" etc

It's only one day! Yes it's inconvient, but I don't think their education is going to suffer "dramatically".

Loz - agreed, but Huguenot seems to be implying I'm was trying to be misleading with the figures. I wasn't - I think I stated quite clearly they are average figures.

Huguenot - obviously! I stated 'average' twice in my post i.e. they are not distorted.

Otta - exactly. It's a myth that all public sector workers are going to get gold-plated pensions - and Hutton agrees with this by stating it in his report. He finds the average public sector average pension is about ?7,800 per year, while the median payment is about ?5,600. In 2009-10, the average public sector pension payments were: local government worker ?4,052; NHS worker ?7,234; civil servant ?6,199; teacher ?9,806; and member of the armed forces ?7,722.

*Bob* - why exactly do you think there's a "pervading feeling" the public sector should suck it up? This poll - http://survation.com/2011/11/survation-survey-on-pensions-uncovers-huge-mistrust-and-misunderstanding-unite/ - published earlier this week, would suggest otherwise and next week up to three million people will strike over this issue. That's more than the number that were on strike during the big disputes from the 70s and 80s. In fact, it will be the biggest since the general strike of 1926. Not exacly a "pervading feeling" I would argue.

SJ - you're correct. A deal was done with the last government which reduces the future cost to the country by 14% - a figure that comes from the National Audit Office. The changes included higher pension ages for new starters and higher contributions in some schemes. Also, as people are living longer than they were, their increased pensions costs would first be shared by the employer and employees together, with the employer cost capped so higher costs of any further extra increase in lifespan would fall entirely to members in the scheme. Also, I agree entirely with the 'race to the bottom' thing. It's something that drives me mad - the "I don't have it, so why should you" mentally is just crazy! I'm not striking on Wednesday as I don't work in the public sector but good luck to DC and the millions of others that will be.

The Council has already run a pilot which included using the bags with handles. However, when this pilot finished, James Barber admitted "In essense the pilot is being ignored and a new untested scheme introduced." see - http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,336529,page=57 It doesn't bode well for any "experiment" and subsequent reporting back - the Council will do what they want regardless!

It was discussed by the G20 a few weeks ago so (potentially) it would be pretty much global. The discussions didn't get anywhere though, not least because Osborne strongly opposes it.

A few of us pointed out the bags with handles issue to James back in the summer when the original food waste pilot was coming to an end (see http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,336529,page=57) Five months later....we've all got bags with no handles and (I think) we've all been given enough of these to supposedly last us two years so I guess we're stuck with them.

Jeremy - agreed but when does afternoon end and evening begin? For example, I'm planning to take the kids to the pub to watch the England game later, which starts at 5:15pm, but won't finish til 7pm. I'll get there early with the kids to reserve five or six good seats plus space for the buggy, while Mrs Minton goes to Sainsbury's - she'll be in an out pretty quick cos she can still park at the front as longer as we keep the kids' car seats in - so there will be two of us to keep half an eye on the clan during the game. Come and say hi if you see us (we're easy to spot as our kids will be the ones being forced to wear poppies). Afterwards we'll probably come back home and finish off the fireworks we have still.

It's an interesting contrast with regard to how the French press have chosen largely to ignore this, seemingly because they regard it as a private conversation and how the British press reported Brown's 'bigoted woman' remark last year, that was also made in private.

Not sure if this is where the Metro sourced its story from (I didn't read the article) but Action Aid released this report today http://www.actionaid.org.uk/doc_lib/addicted_to_tax_havens.pdf showing "just how embedded the use of tax havens is in the structures of nearly all Britain?s biggest companies." They suggest it happens because "the lack of transparency makes it difficult for developing country tax authorities to identify and collect taxes owed by global companies operating in their countries."

The thing that we found with childminders was that often, even if they were just picking up after school and then keeping junior for a few hours, they still had to charge a full day rate because they are only licensed for a certain number of children so if they took ours, it meant giving up one of their places and therefore potentially a whole day's pay from someone else. One other thing that's going to hit next year is the loss of child benefit if either you or your partner do earn over ?42K - well over a grand a year if you have two kids.

I thought his speech was ok, but it was pretty shameful for the rest of them to boo Tony Blair. Extremely short memories of Labour's most successful PM ever!

James - so do we have to request a blue bin or will it just be delivered?

And of course "Specials" by The Specials

The Clash by The Clash

We had our recycling collected yesterday. We've always had (and always put out) two blue boxes, but they only left us with one of these and no new big blue bin was delivered. We were also left with a brown kitchen caddy, but we already have one of these as we've been part of the pilot for the last year. So, we've got too many caddies, less blue boxes and no blue bin. Renata - is this a cock-up or are the big blue bins being delivered separately?