Voting to remain

[*Bob*]

Bizarre comment Foxy - it's in touch with the area we live in. 72% to remain, not far off?

[*Bob*]

In fact - it's not bizarre, it's just bollocks.

[DulwichFox]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> In fact - it's not bizarre, it's just bollocks.

Well star-bob-star Everything you do not agree with is B*****ks to you.

As if E.D. is insular and not part of the U.K. like San Marino or the Vatican City in Italy ..

DF

[Jules-and-Boo]

interesting journey on the Jubilee Line this morning - one guy calling everyone C*NTS (yes! really!) and hilarious bankers - one of whom was just saying 'I submitted my residency application in time' and another who announced he was moving to Frankfurtt - cue laughter....

oh dear, the 'little racist people who should just pay taxes and shut up' have actually had something to say on the matter.

[*Bob*]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Well star-bob-star Everything you do not agree

> with is B*****ks to you.

??!

What are you expecting? Southwarks voters to be 'in touch' with Sunderland - or vice versa?

You make no sense, but then again that's not unusual.

[DulwichFox]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Well star-bob-star Everything you do not

> agree

> > with is B*****ks to you.

>

> ??!

>

> What are you expecting? Southwarks voters to be

> 'in touch' with Sunderland - or vice versa?

>

> You make no sense, but then again that's not

> unusual.

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And don't criticize

What you can't understand

Sorry.. That was another Bob..

I'm in such a good mood this morning... and The Sun is shining.

but having said that The Sun is alway shining above the Clouds..

Things are not always how they seem..

Foxy

[civilservant]

I couldn't say it better than Bob - Foxy, I think he's right on this again

Louisa, I hear what you're saying, and as you know, I've been rather appalled at all the talking-down to that you've been receiving in recent days.

I'm really interested to hear you describe the vote as an 'act of self-harm' by people who feel that they don't have a stake in anything, and I can see how that can be - but I could never agree that it was the right result - just the sight of Farage and his slimy opportunistic hanger-on is enough to make one heave

[miga]

I hate being hectored as much as the next man, but sometimes I feel there is more "screaming" about the "screaming left"'s "screaming", than actual "screaming" from the "screaming left". Whatever - the good people of Sunderland have decided that a way to address decades of decline is to leave the EU, and I've managed to get a window spot on that truck.

[rendelharris]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Result of EDF Referendum Poll

>

>

> Remain a member of the European Union 820 81%

>

> Leave the European Union 171 17%

>

> Unsure 26 2%

>

>

>

> Kind of highlights just how in touch and

> representative The EDF is.

>

> DulwichFox

How many members does this forum have, I wonder? Unless 1,116 represents 72% of users it highlights nothing other than the fact that those who bothered to vote in the poll aren't representative of the populace at large, you can't extrapolate anything more than that about forum users in general. From viewing and joining in the debate on here I'd say those who posted were split roughly down the middle, just like the national vote.

[DulwichFox]

When it comes to the EDF Referendum Poll.

Did people Vote for what they wanted or what they thought would be the outcome.

In either case 81% of EDF pollsters got it wrong.

Comparing East Dulwich with any single part of the U.K. is of course silly..

... but with the whole of the UK. diffent story..

DF

[Louisa]

civilservant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I couldn't say it better than Bob - Foxy, I think

> he's right on this again

>

> Louisa, I hear what you're saying, and as you

> know, I've been rather appalled at all the

> talking-down to that you've been receiving in

> recent days.

> I'm really interested to hear you describe the

> vote as an 'act of self-harm' by people who feel

> that they don't have a stake in anything, and I

> can see how that can be - but I could never agree

> that it was the right result - just the sight of

> Farage and his slimy opportunistic hanger-on is

> enough to make one heave

Civilservant, I personally feel that this vote was swung, in the end, by disaffected heartland Labour voters. Yes you had the usual crowd on the right who were upset about sovereignty snd control over economics. But my sense was that immigration would, amongst a whole host of complex and possibly even unrelated gripes in working class northern communities - be the ultimate decider. The EU has done many good things, but equally it has allowed open borders which rightly or wrongly in these poor communities, has created a scapegoat for all their collective disaffection.

It would be wrong of me or anyone else to gloat about this result, because let's face it, it's going to be a tough road ahead and a long one at that. These communities will probably continue to bare the brunt of this result for a while too. My hope is, democracy will prevail, as will common sense. The Labour family MUST now listen to its heartlands, because if the metropolitan elite continue to ignore these people and their fears, or even worse act towards them with contempt, they will be like lemmings heading for the cliff. As will the party as a whole.

Immigration fears are real and have changed communities, this must not continue to be ignored and not addressed.

Louisa.

[*Bob*]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When it comes to the EDF Referendum Poll.

> Did people Vote for what they wanted or what they

> thought would be the outcome.

> In either case 81% of EDF pollsters got it wrong.

> Comparing East Dulwich with any single part of

> the U.K. is of course silly..

Sometimes it's much easier, simpler and altogether more dignified to just say 'sorry, I was talking bollocks' rather than construct some artificial and daft reason why it's juuuust theoretically possible you might not have been.

[LondonMix]

I just hope the US and France can learn the lessons from this before we have Trump and Le Pen leading two of the worlds major democracies.

Richard Florida, in Who's Your City made many of the points Louisa has (excluding immigration) about 10 years ago. He said the wildly different prospects of the educated, urban international elite from the rest of their countrymen would eventually result in a populist backlash. I first read that book in February this year and it seemed to explain so much of the Trump phenomena at the time. The only component he missed was the immigration angle that seems to have dominated the backlash in Europe and the US.

I hope the country can come together but we are starting to lay people off on Monday. Somehow, I imagine the divisions between young and old, urban elites and disaffected may only intensify as part of the fall-out already underway.

I hope everyone here isn't affected personally and let's all hope the new leadership is capable of guiding the country through these uncharted waters.

Back to a long tough day at work.

[Jules-and-Boo]

that, LM, is the rather scary fact - that we need a leadership competent in leading us through this.

Whomever this will be (clearly Cameron is short of backbone and has opted out of this challenge) can be sure that they will need to deliver, as there will be no scapegoat.

[civilservant]

yes, Louisa, I agree

but the point about the EU was that it was a dream of a better world - utopia in Europe - and part of the project was taking from richer countries and spreading it out a bit to poorer areas. that's why I think Project Fear and the unrelenting focus on the markets was so wrong.

a lot of the people who voted Out live in communities that actually gained as a result of EU membership - the money that was sent to Brussels was divvied up and some of it went to Poland and Portugal and Romania, but some of it came back home again, to Sunderland and Suffolk. I'm waiting to see how much of the savings are now diverted to the NHS as opposed to tax cuts prior to the next election.

Angela Merkel welcoming in refugees was an example of a brave act in support of that utopian dream. The sad thing is that people felt that a. Merkel was wrong and b. that there was less to go around for themselves as a result

and please don't get me started on Corbyn and the Labour party...

[Loz]

What an utter disaster.

Already we see a new PM, possibly a new Labour leader, Scotland looking to leave the union, markets in turmoil. This is going to cost us all dearly.

The Tories are now a Brexit party. And what will Labour do? Their two major strongholds - London and the North - delivered completely opposite results.

I see no light at the end of the tunnel.

[ed_pete]

Louisa Wrote:

...

> But my sense was that immigration

> would, amongst a whole host of complex and

> possibly even unrelated gripes in working class

> northern communities - be the ultimate decider.

> The EU has done many good things, but equally it

> has allowed open borders which rightly or wrongly

> in these poor communities, has created a scapegoat

> for all their collective disaffection.

>

Interesting little graphic that shows that by one measure the areas most dependant on the EU are those with the highest percentages of voting to leave, and vice-versa.

[Otta]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rabid Pro-Remainers should understand from this

> that when you spend months telling marginalised

> and disaffected people that they?re stupid, racist

> and ignorant - those people are more likely to go

> out and stick their vote right up your enlightened

> cosmopolitan arsehole.

>

> Anyway, there it is, that's democracy.

>

> We are living in interesting times.

I think *bob* summed things up pretty well.

[Alan Medic]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When it comes to the EDF Referendum Poll.

>

> Did people Vote for what they wanted or what they

> thought would be the outcome.

>

> In either case 81% of EDF pollsters got it wrong.

It wasn't football predictions fox, it was how would you vote. No one 'got it wrong'.

[miga]

ed_pete Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> ...

> > But my sense was that immigration

> > would, amongst a whole host of complex and

> > possibly even unrelated gripes in working class

> > northern communities - be the ultimate decider.

> > The EU has done many good things, but equally

> it

> > has allowed open borders which rightly or

> wrongly

> > in these poor communities, has created a

> scapegoat

> > for all their collective disaffection.

> >

>

> Interesting little graphic that shows that by one

> measure the areas most dependant on the EU are

> those with the highest percentages of voting to

> leave, and vice-versa.

>

>

> =08

It's what people on the left used to call "False Consciousness" before that became just about the worst thing you could throw at someone, seeing as how everyone's opinion is a perfect little mountain flower worthy of respect.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

messageRe: Voting to remain new

Posted by Jules-and-Boo Today, 10:16AM

interesting journey on the Jubilee Line this morning - one guy calling everyone C*NTS (yes! really!) and hilarious bankers - one of whom was just saying 'I submitted my residency application in time' and another who announced he was moving to Frankfurtt - cue laughter....

oh dear, the 'little racist people who should just pay taxes and shut up' have actually had something to say on the matter.

Yes you did. And it will be interesting to see who you're going to blame when the banks have redomiciled so you can't blame your problem on bankers and the borders have shut so you can't blame immigrants.

[maxxi]

What *Bob* said (on both subjects).

My, we live in interesting times.

I understand a bid is afoot to twin us with Oceania if the paperwork can be finagled. That's the kind of blue sky thinking we need.

[DulwichFox]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > When it comes to the EDF Referendum Poll.

> >

> > Did people Vote for what they wanted or what

> they

> > thought would be the outcome.

> >

> > In either case 81% of EDF pollsters got it

> wrong.

>

> It wasn't football predictions fox, it was how

> would you vote. No one 'got it wrong'.

That was my exact point...

[Jeremy]

Morgan Stanley just announced 2,000 jobs are moving from London to Dublin and Frankfurt. Banks (and other multinationals) are going to need more people in the EU and less in London.

But as long as we get to keep Britain British... it's all good..

[Jules-and-Boo]

this, that they've denied publicly?